Sway Bars w/ Whiteline RLCA Relo Brackets?

[DILYSI Dave]

Run it anyway. Who cares what class SCCA places you in?

EDIT:

Here's what I'm trying to get at. Not many people have the time, resources, or skills to be nationally competitive at SCCA autocross. If you want to be one of them, you have to build your car within their rules, no matter how assinine they seem.

However, if you're like me (and, I'd like to think, most people who autocross) and just want to have FUN driving your car FAST, then to hell with their rules. Build your car the way you want to, race the piss out of it, and have FUN. SCCA's rules be damned.

100% agree. I love national autocrossing, but it's not for everyone. There is absolutely something to be said for building the car you want and running it where it lands.

 

[DILYSI Dave]

Dave,

If I took a whiteline watts kit and machined the diff cover to fit over the stock diff cover that would be legal.....? Stock cover is intact and since mounting is free for the watts it sounds like that would work. I have no idea if that is actually feasible but it does fit within the rules.

So in my mind all the clarification did was make it harder for average guy to use that sort of watts link.

That would be legal. The better way (ie, what I would do if I were doing it) would be to take the pivot mount from the whiteline, which is already steel, and cut a few pieces of filler of the appropriate size, and weld it all to the stock steel cover, effectively duplicating the geometry of the whiteline cover. A few hours of fab and it is 100% legal. Not ideal, but not worth a whole lot of hand wringing either.

The clarification didn't make it harder. It clarified that it had never been legal in the first place. There is a difference.

 

[DILYSI Dave]

That is what was argued at the SEB meeting, and what the decision was made on, hence the quote. Just because it didn't make it into Fastrack does not mean it was not a part of the debate by the SEB.

Well, you need better informants. Your current ones suck. They were wrong on the twins, and they are wrong on this.

 

[Whiskey11]

Dave I went ahead and put in my letter to the SEB under the STall header. Tracking Number #10218. Here is the text:

"Greetings to the SEB. I'm writing because of the recent FastTrack in which the Watts Link rules for Street Prepared clarified that differential mounted Watts linkages that replace the differential cover are not legal but an additional proposal was added under the SP section to allow replacement of the differential cover which would allow differential mounted Watts linkages that replace the differential cover should the proposal pass.

The wording in the suspension rules for ST and SP are the same and the clarification on Watts Link mounting also impacts ST and those of us chosing to run cars with live axles in ST and chose to go the Watts linkage route instead of other lateral locating methods. It only makes sense to include the proposal for replacement differential covers for ST as well as SP since the wording of the suspension rules is identical between the two classes and any interpretation of the suspension rules in SP has a trickle down effect to ST and vice versa."

I hope that is good enough to bring attention to those of us who are (most likely foolishly) trying to run these cars in ST.

 

[modernbeat]

Well, you need better informants. Your current ones suck. They were wrong on the twins, and they are wrong on this.

You SEB guys need to get your story straight before you go public. So far it's two yes and one no.

 

[Roadracer350]

There's ALWAYS some place to run. You'd have to work hard to make it illegal for C Prepared, which is what I'm building for.

Im not sure what C prepd is. I was just reading all the posts about the Watts Link and was wondering.

 

[Roadracer350]

Run it anyway. Who cares what class SCCA places you in?

EDIT:

Here's what I'm trying to get at. Not many people have the time, resources, or skills to be nationally competitive at SCCA autocross. If you want to be one of them, you have to build your car within their rules, no matter how assinine they seem.

However, if you're like me (and, I'd like to think, most people who autocross) and just want to have FUN driving your car FAST, then to hell with their rules. Build your car the way you want to, race the piss out of it, and have FUN. SCCA's rules be damned.

See this is me! I don't care about trophies. Been their done that and I have to many to count. I have boxes FULL of them in the attic. I just want to go out and have fun! Plus I have WAY to much money tied up in this car to have some goober miss a brake marker and slam into me! You would be surprised how much beating and banging goes on in a motorcycle race!

 

[DILYSI Dave]

Im not sure what C prepd is. I was just reading all the posts about the Watts Link and was wondering.

C Prepared allows wholesale geometry changes. You could convert to torque arm rear and double wishbone front if you wanted. Fully stripped, no lights, etc. As long as you make the minimum weights, it's hard to run afould of the CP rules. The one gotcha I could see folks here running into is aftermarket forced induction. That's a no-no, and outside of the old SVO, factory forced induction cars aren't classed there.

Street Modified is another option. It allows more changes to the suspension than ESP, but still requires things like interior and lights. Under the hood is pretty wide open though.

The other place is E Modified. That's pretty much the big car run-whatcha-brung class.

 

[Roadracer350]

C Prepared allows wholesale geometry changes. You could convert to torque arm rear and double wishbone front if you wanted. Fully stripped, no lights, etc. As long as you make the minimum weights, it's hard to run afould of the CP rules. The one gotcha I could see folks here running into is aftermarket forced induction. That's a no-no, and outside of the old SVO, factory forced induction cars aren't classed there.

Street Modified is another option. It allows more changes to the suspension than ESP, but still requires things like interior and lights. Under the hood is pretty wide open though.

The other place is E Modified. That's pretty much the big car run-whatcha-brung class.

That's what i ran when I road raced bikes. I was in A Super bike and Formula 1 in CMRA and WERA. Super bike and Formula Xtreme in AMA. Im not running forced induction but I am changing the intake, cams and CAI. Suspension will be complete White Line, Coilovers, BMR K Member, BMR Radiator Support, Torque limiters for the tranny, 14.5 2 piece rotors with Brembos etc. So i'm thinking ESP or E Mod but not sure If I can start out in those classes. What is the website to get a rule book?

 

[a50cobra]

What is the website to get a rule book?

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/2013 Solo Rules.pdf

 

[DILYSI Dave]

That's what i ran when I road raced bikes. I was in A Super bike and Formula 1 in CMRA and WERA. Super bike and Formula Xtreme in AMA. Im not running forced induction but I am changing the intake, cams and CAI. Suspension will be complete White Line, Coilovers, BMR K Member, BMR Radiator Support, Torque limiters for the tranny, 14.5 2 piece rotors with Brembos etc. So i'm thinking ESP or E Mod but not sure If I can start out in those classes. What is the website to get a rule book?

You can start in any class you want, though if your local program offers a novice class, I'd suggest that, just to help you get a lay of the land. Your bike experience will certainly translate well on the driving front, but a good novice program will help you with the logistics of the event (getting registered, getting teched, when to show up where, etc.).

From what you list, it sounds like a CP or EM. The engine internals take ESP off the table, and the K Member takes SM off the table.

Where are you located?

 

[Roadracer350]

Im in Tulsa Oklahoma. I can easily shoot down to DFW and up to Topeka.

 

[Roadracer350]

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/2013 Solo Rules.pdf

Thanks!!

 

[JesseW.]

SM's unlimited (within manufacture) Driveline mod rule opens up the rear diff cover for a watts link mount. the car can also have any contol arms, front and rear, as long as they mount in the factory holes (no relocators ).

i'm having to run in SM because of the supercharger, otherwise my car is basically a half-assed prepped ESP car thats making about the same or a little more hp as the new 5.0's that have been primped, prodded and teased in the ESP class.

 

[modernbeat]

SM's unlimited (within manufacture) Driveline mod rule opens up the rear diff cover for a watts link mount. the car can also have any contol arms, front and rear, as long as they mount in the factory holes (no relocators )...

That's factory holes at the chassis side. The arms, spindles, axles and struts are unlimited. There's more to it than that, but the restriction is basically that the tub remain stock, uncut and unreinforced.

 

[JesseW.]

That's factory holes at the chassis side. The arms, spindles, axles and struts are unlimited. There's more to it than that, but the restriction is basically that the tub remain stock, uncut and unreinforced.

on the stick axle too, it specifically says you can only change the location of the upper control arm on the axle side. its been covered several times that lca relocators are not legal..... unfortunetly...although a lca could techincally be designed to correct the angle.... think ladder bar shaped attatching at the top rear....

 

[dontlifttoshift]

...although a lca could techincally be designed to correct the angle.... think ladder bar shaped attatching at the top rear....

I don't get it. If the the attachment points are the same (stock) it really won't matter what shape the control arm is.

 

[JesseW.]

you make a lower control arm with an L shape, and a reinforcement that goes from the axle part to 3/4 the way down the main beam so the weld area out back doesn't collaspe. would correct the angle. drawing is a bit exagrerated as you would want the lca's level for road racing.

 

[Whiskey11]

you make a lower control arm with an L shape, and a reinforcement that goes from the axle part to 3/4 the way down the main beam so the weld area out back doesn't collaspe. would correct the angle. drawing is a bit exagrerated as you would want the lca's level for road racing.

The force should be enacted through the line between the two bolt holes, not the arm itself unless I really wasn't paying attention in Physics in college! That is possible!

 

[BMR Tech]

The force should be enacted through the line between the two bolt holes, not the arm itself unless I really wasn't paying attention in Physics in college! That is possible!

You are correct.

FWIW, I have seen some factory "looking" axle housings (lca mounting brackets; think cut/weld)....that were underneath cars that were lowered substantially, with the LCA parallel to the ground. doh..