The proto typing of a 2011 GT turbo kit

[GallopingFord]

Sub'd.

 

[Full_Tilt]

I surprised Hellion would leave the WBO2 sensors in the manifolds, and not move them to the downpipes.
I bet they are overheating and thats what is making the car run poorly.

Also, isnt there a way to disable them and run only in open loop?

 

[Sky Render]

I surprised Hellion would leave the WBO2 sensors in the manifolds, and not move them to the downpipes.
I bet they are overheating and thats what is making the car run poorly.

Also, isnt there a way to disable them and run only in open loop?

You cannot run a boosted car utilizing an alpha-n (open loop) control system. It would be unable to account for varying boost levels.

 

[CPRsm]

Best of luck on the kit!

Thanx mang. I know, it doesn't make sense. But if you call and talk to PTE, they will tell you the same thing.

I surprised Hellion would leave the WBO2 sensors in the manifolds, and not move them to the downpipes.
I bet they are overheating and that's what is making the car run poorly.

Also, isnt there a way to disable them and run only in open loop?

IDk honestly. I had heard there is no open loop in the '11's, but IDK for sure.

What brand of turbochargers are you looking at using? Quality pieces from Borg-Warner or TiAL perhaps?

Not sure on this car. May end up being custom. Maybe all components from the same company, but not sure yet. I use JGS components though. American made stuff. I can across them trying to fix boost creep on a car. They held 9 psi in 4th gear where the tial I took off was seeing 13psi in first gear. Have been using their stuff since.

Very cool! Welcome as an advertiser!

849 is pretty impressive! Do you know what the SAE # was?

Nope, I don't correct numbers. It can be skewed when correcting with turbos. Primarily at higher altitude. But I iced water in the intercooler to make sure it was nice and safe.

800 seems to be a challenging # on pump gas, I cannot imagine 91 Octane.

Was the 849 on a spike, or clean?

Oh and, Grabber. Not Kona

Yeah, I found out. Idon't even know the color of my own car. I just call it Grey lol. At first it looked like a spike. When I added the ice the inlets dropped into the high 30's, low 40's. the SCT multiplier made it WAY too rich. As I started trimming out fuel it kept picking up power. There is a dip, and then the last run you can see it's cleaned up and the dip is much smaller. But the AFR' are still in the 9's and didn't even show on the graph. But it was 4am, pushing like luck with the short block. Plan is just to lower the boost and see if I can make the same power on about 18 psi. A customer coming soon will be showing some really good numbers. Better than mine. IDK about pump because he has an a/a unit. He will convert to E85 and didn't really need it. I wish he did though. With his engine and 92 octane it's would feasible to see 1krwhp on pump. Every time I touched it it made power. We were not done at 849rwhp. When I have a new engine ready, we will really push it on pump gas. That is, if it lives through the testing to come lol.

 

[Full_Tilt]

You cannot run a boosted car utilizing an alpha-n (open loop) control system. It would be unable to account for varying boost levels.

Open loop as in open loop fuel, not using the O2 sensors trim.

Ive never heard Alpha-N called open loop before

 

[Sky Render]

Open loop as in open loop fuel, not using the O2 sensors trim.

Ive never heard Alpha-N called open loop before

Open loop fuel could easily lead to a lean condition under boost.

Alpha-N is a method of controlling fuel and spark tables based primarily on two factors: throttle blade angle (alpha) and revolutions per minute (N). Because there is no feedback, it would be an open loop system. Because Alpha-N does not take into account either mass-airflow counts or manifold absolute pressure, it could not be used on forced-induction motors, because it would have no way of knowing the boost at any given moment.

I have heard of Alpha-N being used with O2 feedback, but it isn't very common. Alpha-N is usually used only for "limp" mode on OEM engine control systems. However, some race teams have had success in using Alpha-N on naturally-aspirated cars running huge cams. Of course, those motors run for short periods of time and primarily at WOT.

 

[CPRsm]

You cannot run a boosted car utilizing an alpha-n (open loop) control system. It would be unable to account for varying boost levels.

How can you not ? On the software on this car I saw the specs to force open loop at 545maf counts iirc.

 

[Full_Tilt]

I know what alpha-n is, I think we are talking about different things.

Closed loop fuel trim is where the O2 sensors give feedback to the ECU so that it can trim the fuel to the desired lambda value.
Open loop would be taking the value directly from the map and using it, ignoring what the o2 sensors are reading.

Im saying, these problems that CPRsm mentioned, if you could disable closed loop fuel trim entirely and see if that cures the issues, then you would know for sure that the problem lies with the O2 sensors readings. My logic being that they may be overheating and that moving them to the downpipes may fix it.

 

[ethic1]

Pass some popcorn Ultracla$$ic

 

[Mike K]

Do you have any intention of doing a 3 valve kit?

 

[rford426]

Do you have any intention of doing a 3 valve kit?

Already talked to him he said most likely not the market has came and gone and is flooded with china kits now...Don't blame him

 

[CPRsm]

800 seems to be a challenging # on pump gas, I cannot imagine 91 Octane.

Was the 849 on a spike, or clean?

You can see a pretty good spike. I was surprised I wasn't blowing out the spark to be honest. I just kept trimming it back and it kept climbing. I'll see if I can find the other graph. You can see the AFR flat lined at the bottom lol. I made back to back pulls so the power dropped a little. But in the second graph the dip isn't as bad. Maybe I'll go back and lower the boost and see if it will make the same with 18-19 psi with the right fuel curve. I had it so flat you could have a tea party on it until the damn ice got added lol.

I should have some more numbers from a customer soon. He has a real engine that he takes to over 7k. And he has 93 octane. He is converting to E85 so we "only" did an A/A unit. 4.5 thick, 18 wide and 13.5in tall. Inlets will be nice, but IDK about low enough to make 1000 rwhp. He'll hit it on C16 no problem though. We're guessing he'll hit the mark at 18 psi

Already talked to him he said most likely not the market has came and gone and is flooded with china kits now...Don't blame him

Right 'Oh sir.

 

[CPRsm]

CNC'd flange as is the usual. If I can get the headers on with the stock OEM studs still in place, the slot will go away and we'll just make holes. The bolts at the top are pretty far away. So we made them a bit more beefed up. I've already had a set of long tubes leak there a bit because they weren't thick enough to resist bending around the gasket. But those flanges were 3/8's also, so who knows. We won't need to worry either way.

 

[emeraldlx]

If you are not talking with dave and regurgitating his opinions, why even mention Hellion? I am a fabricator as well. If i was making a kit I know I could market it without putting another company in the gutter. IMO very amateur. Find the financial backing and make a kit. That does not make you some genius. Good luck with dealing with who you are dealing with.


You are building a single kit..............I thought it was a twin for 5k? That is what I was competing with.

Here you go

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

You joined just to post this crap, go spew your garbage elsewhere.

 

[emeraldlx]

You joined just to post this crap, go spew your garbage elsewhere.

This is not crap buddy. You wanna a twin kit for your s197. PM me and we will talk. Understand that I know more about this garbage than you would care to. Good evening.

 

[CPRsm]

My 2nd e-stalker, yeah !
You can still have a kit to compare to. Your numbers are coming shortly.

 

[emeraldlx]

My question is.....................................If you are building it private label. Why are you even posting about it? Seems like you have a personal agenda, or something to prove. You just go back to your hole and weld pipes.

 

[CPRsm]

Mmmmm, not told all the details were ya now ? Your informant didn't mention that because he only over heard what we wanted him to hear.
ON3 thinks it's a personal agenda to point out their stuff as well.
Why don't you post some of yours up if you want to compare. I know exactly who you are. And I've seen your work. I'd be more than happy to compare what we already have.
Going to go dyno this. Maybe you'll put a pic

 

[TurboX]

Another thread taken headed to the shitter, emeraldlx is John Urist crew chief AKA Hellion.