Tsb 11-07-07

[19COBRA93]

On my '05 I generally can't hear detonation. I melted a piston down at the track last year and didn't hear a thing. On the new cars with as quiet as the engine compartments are, I'd be surprised if you can hear any pinging at all. There's always the possibility that it's happening and you're not hearing it. On stock internals, sometimes by the time you hear it, the damage is already done.

I have another buddy with a supercharged '11 who had 3 damaged pistons. He spent 2 weeks putting it completely back to stock, every nut and bolt. Took it in to try to get Ford to cover it, and it didn't fly. They figured it out pretty quickly and denied his claim. It cost him $1000 for the tear down at the dealer, and he had to pay for a new shortblock out of pocket. This isn't a Ford Taurus with a rod knock. Ford knows what they're doing with this motor, and this car, they know what it takes to make them fail, and they'll do everything they can to keep from paying a $8000 motor swap.

 

[94tbird]

that is because of tons of ppl modifying their cars, blowign shit up, then trying to get ford to foot the bill. You gotta pay to play. If you break your shit, dont expect ford to fix it.

You like the mustang right? like the power they offer? sure you do that's why you bought it. If people keep bringing their broken cars that they modified and returned to stock back to ford for warranty work, ford will eventually pull the damned plug. Or at least lock the PCM's to prevent flashing of any kind. Its as simple as a read only switch in the code.

 

[fiveoh]

Yep, I'm thinking I really should data log mine as well. (i'm at a higher elevation, 3300' though so i have less compression than sea level folks). when you data log I think I read a post that said you should be in the 12.4 AF ratio range. I'd double check that before I get to worked up about it though. Yeah 14 is bad I'm shocked by that.

People really talk up the Lund tunes, and i'm sure they are really good, but I haven't seen any proof that they are better than a Bama, brenspeed, livernois or BBR tune.


KungFuHamser, they can't just void your warranty for any issue from a modification, but it does appear this piston issue is tune related and therefore yes that would void it for that issue, but not all issues.

Keep telling yourself that about the tune... I haven't heard of one LUND tuned car having the #8 problem yet. I know bama and brenspeed have both had cars with the #8 problem...

and no I do NOT have a lund tune.

 

[KungFuHamster]

KungFuHamser, they can't just void your warranty for any issue from a modification, but it does appear this piston issue is tune related and therefore yes that would void it for that issue, but not all issues.

according to this TSB, yes they can void your warranty for performing any modification to your car.

not that any would actually admit to having issues or being responsible for a tuning related engine failure, but i would like to see some of the tuners thoughts on this. because i agree with 19COBRA93 in the respect that these motors are plenty stout and should not be hammering pistons with just a couple of bolt ons

 

[Riptide]

They can void it for a k&n intake if they want. Yes it's bs but if they wanna play hardball its up to you to beat them in court. It usually doesnt come to that thankfully.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatwat

 

[stkjock]

Took it in to try to get Ford to cover it, and it didn't fly. They figured it out pretty quickly and denied his claim.

how?

 

[Mishri]

warranty void for that issue, jesus why does this have to get brought up every time, read the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act. They try to claim that it voids your warranty but they just don't have to warranty that issue. Like riptide says it turns into a fight or if you are push over then you can just let it slide.

hey Fiveoh Lund must have left the knock sensors in stock configuration, bama/brenspeed didn't and they corrected that awhile ago. so far that seems to appear to be the cause/solution to it. Although only time will tell if that is correct or not. or if any of Lund's tune's will in the future show that issue. so far it's only a handful of people. possibly even related to bad gas/incorrect gas from what i've read, like the recent one in mustang chit chat where the dealership put 87 in and it was tuned for 93 because the guy got a free tank of gas.

So i'll keep telling myself that the performance appears to be equal or cloes to it across the board when you like at 1/4 mile times, which is all that really matters in life anyway and that is the only way to effectively prove a tune is better is the performance, and that's the best metric we have available. well that and it not blowing up haha, which appears to be a minority of people considering how many tunes those tuner do, traceable to the knock sensor and wrong/bad gas.

 

[Rob72]

Yep, I'm thinking I really should data log mine as well. (i'm at a higher elevation, 3300' though so i have less compression than sea level folks).

What happens if you data log your car from 3300' and drive it to New Orleans? Is this an timing issue if you plan on driving it hard?

 

[19COBRA93]

how?

There were several sources and clues that led them to their decision.

-P1000 code.
-Numerous bolts/nuts had been previously removed and reinstalled.
-They called the original selling dealer and requested a service and parts purchase history.
-Pictures of each damaged piston were sent to Ford. Ford determined it was a lean issue and with no failed components to blame it on, they attributed it to possible aftermarket components.

The nail in the coffin was the Boss intake he had purchased under his name from the original selling dealer. Once they saw that, it was over. Now, in bright yellow highlights attached to his VIN in the Ford system it says something like "Engine warranty coverage is voided".

 

[fiveoh]

warranty void for that issue, jesus why does this have to get brought up every time, read the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act. They try to claim that it voids your warranty but they just don't have to warranty that issue. Like riptide says it turns into a fight or if you are push over then you can just let it slide.

hey Fiveoh Lund must have left the knock sensors in stock configuration, bama/brenspeed didn't and they corrected that awhile ago. so far that seems to appear to be the cause/solution to it. Although only time will tell if that is correct or not. or if any of Lund's tune's will in the future show that issue. so far it's only a handful of people. possibly even related to bad gas/incorrect gas from what i've read, like the recent one in mustang chit chat where the dealership put 87 in and it was tuned for 93 because the guy got a free tank of gas.

So i'll keep telling myself that the performance appears to be equal or cloes to it across the board when you like at 1/4 mile times, which is all that really matters in life anyway and that is the only way to effectively prove a tune is better is the performance, and that's the best metric we have available. well that and it not blowing up haha, which appears to be a minority of people considering how many tunes those tuner do, traceable to the knock sensor and wrong/bad gas.

If your car is a DD driveability is a huge factor to consider with a tune as well. I have ridden/drove various 11 5.0s with different tunes and they all have a different feel. Some of them have serious drivability issues that I would not want to deal with(bucking at low rpms, very touchy throttle, harsh shifts on an auto etc etc). As far as 1/4 mile times and speeds they are probably all similar.

Maybe there are some lund tune cars with #8 problems but I have yet to see one. I am also not saying he is the only good tuner but do your research.

 

[wproctor411]

You gotta pay to play. If you break your shit, dont expect ford to fix it.

+1 And you will pay to play. It sucks and some tunes are less safe but trying to push it with the leanest possible tune will create issues. If you add more parts you need to make sure the company you get your tune from knows about the added parts. If you have a CAI/Tune, and then add free flowing exhaust later on down the road, you may need to retune it to keep the A/F ratios safe.
for

 

[fdjizm]

Having your warranty voided when you tune your engine and it blows is nothing new.

Should a person be able to hear if the car has detonation? My car has never spark knocked that I know of. So with no audible pinging should I be OK? Thanks.

Yes it will sound like a tin can with marbles in it.

 

[Rob72]

If your car is a DD driveability is a huge factor to consider with a tune as well. I have ridden/drove various 11 5.0s with different tunes and they all have a different feel. Some of them have serious drivability issues that I would not want to deal with(bucking at low rpms, very touchy throttle, harsh shifts on an auto etc etc).

These sound like race tune features to me. I have seen at least 2 #8 issues that were running a 93 street tune. All of the # 8 problems that I've seen(where the person has admitted to having a tune) have some type of 93 octane tune involved.

 

[orgchem]

It has been suggested (by users on other forums, as well as Chris @ AM who says he's 50% sure) that the 2011+ PCM has a checksum system built-in, such that even flashing back to stock using an SCT device is detectable if the PCM is sent to Ford. Supposedly the only way around this is to have an official Ford system re-flash the PCM (such as from a TSB calibration update at the dealer). Then the check-sum will be valid. Take it FWIW.

I'm not actively trying to spread unfounded rumors, but just saying. I guess it is a pay to play world.

 

[dmhines]

P1000 is the only DTC that cannot be cleared via a Diagnostic tool. So if something breaks and the car is not drivable ... you are screwed.

http://www.obdii.com/drivecycleford.html

 

[5PointOHNO]

LOL - 6spd Supercharged here. Car gets a thrashing everytime I drive it and I have had zero issues.

I got the proper trans fluid as soon as the TSB came out.

 

[Rob72]

SCV's have the timing in the weeds.

 

[Mishri]

What happens if you data log your car from 3300' and drive it to New Orleans? Is this an timing issue if you plan on driving it hard?

Yep if i were to play with the tune and advance my timing to max it out at this elevation for 93 octane. then if i were to drive it down there i'd want to data log it again there and see where things sit before romping around. I'm not planning on doing that though I have the impression that the mail order tune is safer for me than someone in new orleans though. I could just be deluding myself you never know


sounds like if you get that code and you had a tune on it.. well.. you are hosed and will have to pay for it because you know your tune caused that issue... on the other hand.. still seems really weird that just a tune is doing this.. sometimes sucks to be an early adopter

 

[Rob72]

As of now my thought on this is it's risky to max out the timing on a car with 11 to 1 compression and tri-vct ESPECIALLY using a mail order tune. It seems like a bad tank of gas is all you need and you won't have any idea till the P0308 comes up. Also if this ever happened to me I would want a reading of the octane level in my gas tank.

 

[KungFuHamster]

As of now my thought on this is it's risky to max out the timing on a car with 11 to 1 compression and tri-vct ESPECIALLY using a mail order tune. It seems like a bad tank of gas is all you need and you won't have any idea till the P0308 comes up. Also if this ever happened to me I would want a reading of the octane level in my gas tank.

i was thinking the same thing.

also lets look at when did these start occurring? when summer rolled in? i know its been over 100+ here for the last damn week or so and hot ambient air...add in too much timing and a bad tank of gas and we now have broken pistons.

i think if i go to the track in the next month or so im gonna put a couple of gallons of 110 in it just for a little insurance.