Tsb 11-07-07

19COBRA93

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Piston #8 metallurgy? bad batch?
Feed my braaaaaain.
why #8?

All the pistons are the same, so if it were a metal issue, it would be random cylinders, and it would happen to the majority of 5.0's (thousands of them). So far the only common failure has been from cars with aftermarket tunes on them. I'm still trying to figure out why Ford should foot the bill for the repairs.
 

Mishri

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they could change something about the knock sensor or coolant or some other thing to avoid damage specifically to that piston. It just doesn't make sense that its only mildly modified cars and only that piston with this issue(even tune only), not the supercharged or n2o cars, not any other problem that you'd think would pop up with a bad tune. With the 3v you would see certain pistons(or rather control arms) fail with too much boost/bad tune so usually you'd see 3 or 6 blow or whatever, i can't remember 6 or 7 maybe.. in any case, it wasn't always one weak point, it was just pushing the stock internals too hard.

What about the tune is causing this specifically to happen to that one piston in a handful of engines when most peoplare fine pushing much more power or with the same tune? The burden of proof is on Ford. just because we haven't seen any posts from people with #8 issues while stock doesn't mean there aren't any or wont be any, this car has only been out a little over a year. what if it's just that #8 is getting too hot in some vehicles?
 

19COBRA93

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they could change something about the knock sensor or coolant or some other thing to avoid damage specifically to that piston. It just doesn't make sense that its only mildly modified cars and only that piston with this issue(even tune only), not the supercharged or n2o cars, not any other problem that you'd think would pop up with a bad tune. With the 3v you would see certain pistons(or rather control arms) fail with too much boost/bad tune so usually you'd see 3 or 6 blow or whatever, i can't remember 6 or 7 maybe.. in any case, it wasn't always one weak point, it was just pushing the stock internals too hard.

What about the tune is causing this specifically to happen to that one piston in a handful of engines when most peoplare fine pushing much more power or with the same tune? The burden of proof is on Ford. just because we haven't seen any posts from people with #8 issues while stock doesn't mean there aren't any or wont be any, this car has only been out a little over a year. what if it's just that #8 is getting too hot in some vehicles?

It could easily be that cylinder 8 is the hottest one, so if it leans out or detonates, that will be the first piston to let go. That's no different than nearly all the modular motors before it. But the fact is, in stock form, there just aren't any problems with them. And if you modify it beyond stock, Ford's not going to pay for the repair. It's really that simple.

If it turns into a problem on known unmodified cars, then Ford will have their chance to make it right. As it stands, there isn't a problem for them to fix. A PCM reflash costs money, so why would Ford, or any business, pay for you to bring your car in and have them reflash your PCM so it's safer for you to modify your car? They wouldn't.
 

fdjizm

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All the pistons are the same, so if it were a metal issue, it would be random cylinders, and it would happen to the majority of 5.0's (thousands of them). So far the only common failure has been from cars with aftermarket tunes on them. I'm still trying to figure out why Ford should foot the bill for the repairs.


Unless it happens bone stock I don't agree they should get the bill of course.
There was a pic around here of a #8 piston and it looks like it fractured at the ring land, no signs of melting or detonation just a clean break. could that still be detonation?
 

Twinscrewgt

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Unless it happens bone stock I don't agree they should get the bill of course.
There was a pic around here of a #8 piston and it looks like it fractured at the ring land, no signs of melting or detonation just a clean break. could that still be detonation?


Yup, it sure could... If you remember beefcakes motor it was number 6 that took a shit...

The stock pistons are great, until however, detonation occurs then that powder metal breaks apart.
 

Riptide

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IIRC there were people on MF who had issues with plugs stuck in the head on the 3v and the dealer told them to fuck off and pay for the repair.
 

BAKnBLK2010

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Yup, it sure could... If you remember beefcakes motor it was number 6 that took a shit...

The stock pistons are great, until however, detonation occurs then that powder metal breaks apart.


Beefcake's motor actually had three pistons and rods take a dump. However it wasn't tune related at all. He had a front 02 extension that had a bad connection that caused the motor to go lean on that side causing the failure. You should know what you are talking about before typing these responses.
 

vakane

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The #8 issue keeps pointing at tuners.... bad ones.... probably to much timing + knocking+ sensor switched to off or slow...... boom
 

five0three

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i really think this whole #8 cyl. thing has gotten out of hand. how many cases have we seen on LIGHTLY modded motors?
 

stkjock

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Doesn't the PCM advance the timing more when it's hot?

Yeah, if you want detonation

3 total cars is what im seein
And who are you to know this is all that there is?


As I understand it, there were/are 3 or 4 Coyote motors that have had the #8 cyl issue. I heard this from what I would consider a very reliable person while at the NMRA Atco event. As some know that event was marred by rain, there was a lot of time to sit and talk, so this topic did come up. That was in April, so certainly a few more cases may have happened, further, IMO Ford would not have issued a TSB so quickly fir just a few cars. But that is a guess.
 
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302

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There was a car local to me who had the #8 failure also. My local tuner told me about it, but the dumbass ran 87 on a 93 tune. I'm not going to say who the online tuner was just because i don't want them to try crawl up my ass thinking in any way i am trying to blame them. However, he did state that the online tune was spot on BUT the knock sensors were at the previous setting where they were "numbed" down as he called it. After it was all said and done, and he had the piston repaired he wanted the local tuner to tune his car instead of the online people. Except he wanted to have a tune specifically for 87. The local guy refused and this guy is now running around with a stock car. This guy just does not want to pay the price on premium gasoline, and he got what he deserved for not putting high octane gasoline in his car. Moral of the story, from my local tuner he said to only run 93 with a tuned car, and make sure it is not the "cheaper" gas and also try to stop at higher quality filling stations.
 

KungFuHamster

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There was a car local to me who had the #8 failure also. My local tuner told me about it, but the dumbass ran 87 on a 93 tune. I'm not going to say who the online tuner was just because i don't want them to try crawl up my ass thinking in any way i am trying to blame them. However, he did state that the online tune was spot on BUT the knock sensors were at the previous setting where they were "numbed" down as he called it. After it was all said and done, and he had the piston repaired he wanted the local tuner to tune his car instead of the online people. Except he wanted to have a tune specifically for 87. The local guy refused and this guy is now running around with a stock car. This guy just does not want to pay the price on premium gasoline, and he got what he deserved for not putting high octane gasoline in his car. Moral of the story, from my local tuner he said to only run 93 with a tuned car, and make sure it is not the "cheaper" gas and also try to stop at higher quality filling stations.
i use "cheap" QT or Racetrack gas here in TX. But i thought about this the other day since we're planning on making a trip to the track i may pay a little extra and put some Exxon, Chevron or Shell in a couple days before we go to Crandall
 

Bmr4life

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Hmmm, I always get Sam's Club gas. Never had a problem with my 4.6, but who knows about the 5.0
 

Digital_Synapse

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I always use Shell 93, is that cheap? I didn't know there was cheap gas. Where are the non-cheap ones?
 

Riptide

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We have Cenex, Sinclair, Exxon, and Conoco stations here. Cenex is the only one with 93 premium and the others are all 91.
 

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