Turn the key on and nothing, I mean NOTHING happens except......

[white95]

......what I assume is the theft light.

Back story:

My wife drove the car to the store about a mile from the house without issue. Started and ran just fine, as usual. Hopped back in it to leave, gave the key a twist and nothing! WTF... The dash didn't light up and there is no key-in-the-ignition chiming. If you turn the key to the ACC position, the radio comes on but when you switch to the ON position, the radio turns off BUT a relay clicks around the SJB. The starter doesn't crank at all. Had the car towed home and won't have a chance to crawl under it until friday [7-27-18]

Keep in mind I do NOT have a spare key!!

List of items checked and observations​

1. Read 12.5VDC @ the battery.
2. Attempted to jump start but to no avail.
3. Disconnected battery for 10 minutes to clear computer but no changes.
4. All fuses in both panels passed a continuity test with a VOM.
5. Key fob lock/unlock/panic/trunk release function properly.
6. Horn, power seat works.
7. All connectors seem to be properly seated.
8. Pulled starter & PCM relays and inspected terminals; check ok with VOM.
9. No apparent damage to wiring/connector at ignition switch.
10. Neutral safety switch seemingly operates but likely not associated with this issue

Finally got her home around 9:30 last night and we pushed it under the carport. Did a massive google search campaign and some on this forum as well. I've drawn the following conclusions [correct me if I've been mislead [if it's on the internet, it must be true, right?]

1. It's fucked.
2. If PATS were holding it out, the starter would engage but not start the car
3. Possible that the PATS module is not functioning.
4. Possible the transponder key is not being recognized.
5. SJB could be FUBAR

So.... There you have it. Any and all advice is welcomed.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

Automatic or manual shift? I choose not to assume manual because of the reference to the neutral switch alone. Year would also be nice to know since I only have prints for 2005. They can get by, but color codes and pinout may vary as well as some wiring updates after original release.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

First check C250 pin 4 (Light Green w Violet stripe) on the ignition switch connector to see if you have 12vdc. You should have. Next place the key in the ignition but do not rotate it. Check C250 pin 5 (a second Light green w Violet stripe) for 12vdc. If you have nothing this is your problem as this is the key in ignition switch that makes when the key is placed in. IF this is good continue on.

With the key in the ignition rotate it to acc and check C250 pin 6 (black w pink stripe) for 12vdc. Rotate key to RUN and check C250 pin 1 (white w yellow stripe) for 12vdc. Then rotate and hold to START and check C250 pin 7 (dark green solid) for 12vdc. If there is no voltage at RUN or START or BOTH, again the ignition switch is the likely candidate.

The click you are hearing in the SJB switching from accessory to off is likely the accessory delay relay. This relay is the relay that keeps the radio on for about 5 minutes or until the door is opened. But I believe it is only delay active from the on position and not the accessory position. While I have a 14 GT I will see if this is the case when I get home tonight. It's not something I have taken the time to notice before.

Hope this helps. I cannot be of more assistance until I get home from work. If you need more OR IF YOU DO FIND THE ISSUE PLEASE REPLY. Thanks. This helps everyone to learn more.

 

[white95]

Automatic or manual shift? I choose not to assume manual because of the reference to the neutral switch alone. Year would also be nice to know since I only have prints for 2005. They can get by, but color codes and pinout may vary as well as some wiring updates after original release.

Thank you for the detailed response, the direction. The car is an ‘05 GT and is in fact a manual. I’m going to wait until Friday to dig into it (I left her with my truck since I carpool anyway) when I can start early and not be pressed for time.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

No sweat. let me know what you find. We may be able to chase it through the schems to the fault if someone who has had the exact symptom doesn't chime in meanwhile with their findings on the symptom.

 

[white95]

Good thing I'm an electrician.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

I picked up on that in your diagnostics process and lingo. Makes two of us. I can copy you some prints if you need them. I have hard copies at home if you need any pin out, etc.

 

[white95]

Definitely could use the ignition pin out to troubleshoot with and the SJB if you have them.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

Will send you the pinout on C250 tonight.

Here is the link to free on line for 2005 and 2011 a member here on the site lets us use. The wire diagrams are lacking somewhat like connector pinout and they are a little difficult to sort through compared to having a paper version in your lap as they aren't as correct in where they send you to. But they beat nothing for a start.

http://iihs.net/fsm/?d=0


The ignition switch will be found under power distribution SJB. It will be on sheet 11. Let me know through this what SJB connector pinout you would like. If you need me to verify anything with my prints at home I can do that. Mine do have some variations compared to the on line prints but with the two combined wew can pretty much chase it down. I just don't want to speculate its an ignition switch without verifying it first. I don't like helping others spend their hard earned money on hunches and guesses.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

Here is C250. Its just a 7 pin female connector.

 

[nawagner]

Have you tried roll starting it? I know that doesn't solve long term issue but can rule out some things.

Usually if it is a PATS issue the theft light blinks in a different pattern than normal.

Did you try the starter with it off the car? Did you measure voltage on the starter solenoid while trying to start?

Double check the battery terminal connections. I have seen many times where a loose connection will allow horn, lights, radio etc. because they draw low amps. When starting it pulls high amps and if the connection is not good enough it acts as you have mentioned beceause the current can't flow through a bad connection.

I would also swap the relays you mentioned. I have also seen where they seem fine when using a meter, but act differently under load.

 

[white95]

Have you tried roll starting it? I know that doesn't solve long term issue but can rule out some things.

Usually if it is a PATS issue the theft light blinks in a different pattern than normal.

Did you try the starter with it off the car? Did you measure voltage on the starter solenoid while trying to start?

Double check the battery terminal connections. I have seen many times where a loose connection will allow horn, lights, radio etc. because they draw low amps. When starting it pulls high amps and if the connection is not good enough it acts as you have mentioned beceause the current can't flow through a bad connection.

I would also swap the relays you mentioned. I have also seen where they seem fine when using a meter, but act differently under load.

No, I'm waiting until tomorrow to tackle this on my three day weekend. My plan is to put the car on jackstands and check power at the starter.

 

[white95]

Ok, I haven’t started troubleshooting the issue just yet. That starts in the morning so I can have a full day. Did make note that the ignition switch doesn’t seem to make contact when you insert the key. Watch these:

 

[redfirepearlgt]

I agree with you. Just out of curiosity, does the key chain you or your wife carry have a TON of keys, other keyfobs, swipe cards, etc hanging on them? If so this has been known to cause damage to ignition switches over time. The key in ignition indicator working intermittent based on how you hold the key is a clear indication of wear and is likely pointing to the culprit, but I think you'll agree there is more that can be checked before we jump to that conclusion just on the key jiggle. Then there is the question of the key even though it is unlikely. But you don't have a spare. Between the two (bad key and/or faulty ignition switch) a spare key is great to have even if it isn't the cause and can be great comfort should the primary key get lost. So to me buying and paying to program one of those (if that can be done with the car in this state) is a win-win for you. Moving on....

I would next check those output voltages at key in RUN. You are getting accessories to work as you stated, and I assume the windows go up and down when you have it in the accessories position as well as the radio which you stated. So the next step is to see if 12vdc is getting out of the ignition switch in the run position on pin 1 of C250 (white w yellow stripe according to my hard prints). You could back probe pin C2280A pin 36 on the SJB for this which may be easier to get to than tearing the steering column covers off initially for a check. Then check the start signal on the same connector at pin 12 (dark green solid). See pinout below.

 

[white95]

Agreed. The best part of troubleshooting electrical systems, no matter how complex, is the problems largely fall into the same categories. That being said, the first problem I’m going to address tomorrow is rectifying an empty coffee pot and then I’ll call the stealership to get a quote on a new, programmed key. Then, another to pop-a-lock or whomever else may provides this service in my area. After that, I’ll test the circuits you highlighted and report back.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

This link will take you straight to the connector layout on the SJB as well. C2280A is on the front side according to the connector locations in this link.

http://iihs.net/fsm/?d=40&f=Fuse and Relay Information.pdf&p=4

Gotta run. Hogan's Hero's is coming on. LOL!

 

[white95]

Took someone’s suggestion off of the Facebook group:

Basically just do this:

Step 1.Turn key to on position
Step 2. Leave key on for 10 minutes
Step 3. Pull key out lock and unlock
If it doesn't work retry step 3

Wouldn’t you know the son of a bitch came to life at about the 8 minute mark! I’m going to have replacement keys made anyway.

Damn Mustangs....

 

[redfirepearlgt]

SAY WHAAAAAAAAAT? What The HECK does that reset? And what caused the need for the reset to begin with? I want to know more about this phenomenon!!!!

Ford Techs speak up!

 

[white95]

 

[white95]

SAY WHAAAAAAAAAT? What The HECK does that reset? And what caused the need for the reset to begin with? I want to know more about this phenomenon!!!!

Ford Techs speak up!

Truthfully, I was skeptical that it would even work. It was free to try though