Twincharger: ever seen one on our cars?

[Dubstep Shep]

So a buddy of mine and I were talking the other day, and he mentioned something I had heard of being done only on really small engines like a 1.4L; twin-charging.

For those who don't know what that is, basically
It's when you have a supercharger and a turbocharger on a single engine. Conventionally they are run in series and produce compound boost. The advantages of each minimize the disadvantages of the other. They're pretty badass everywhere I've seen them but prohibitively expensive.

The reason for this thread is my buddy said he saw a GT500 with this setup, which was news to me. I wasn't aware this was a thing on our cars at all. It's so expensive to execute on a smaller engine and even more so on a bigger one.

Is this a one-off deal or have you guys seen these before?

 

[RocketcarX]

I don't think there are any real downsides to a proper turbo charger set up. IF anything it's the turbo system making up for the lack of integrity on the superchargers part

I've not seen it done on our cars FWIW. Should be no reason you couldn't combine say a whipple kit and a turbo set up in their basic out of the box forms, shouldn't really need anything that's not supplied with the kits. 'Cept like 20k and a good tuner, lol.

 

[blacks197]

Hellion does a HELLRAISER kit for the GT500. Twins with the blower.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

I don't think there are any real downsides to a proper turbo charger set up. IF anything it's the turbo system making up for the lack of integrity on the superchargers part

I've not seen it done on our cars FWIW. Should be no reason you couldn't combine say a whipple kit and a turbo set up in their basic out of the box forms, shouldn't really need anything that's not supplied with the kits. 'Cept like 20k and a good tuner, lol.

Turbo lag is the only real downside to a turbo only system.

There are so many questions I have about the setup on a system like that. The first being where the smell is the blow off valve gonna go? Before the super and after the turbo? Hahaha idk. But you're right, doing something like would take a thick checkbook and someone who knows the tuning inside and out.

Hellion does a HELLRAISER kit for the GT500. Twins with the blower.

I'll have to look into that, just for curiosities sake. Can't imagine it's cheap.

 

[07TGGT]

Compound boost, nothing new, even since 2003.

Oh, and BTW, this really isn't Tech. Unless you've been living under a rock for the last 25 years.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Compound boost, nothing new, even since 2003.

Oh, and BTW, this really isn't Tech. Unless you've been living under a rock for the last 25 years.

While the tech isn't new, the application may be. And just because it isn't new, even the application, doesn't mean it's commonplace.

Compound boost has been around outside the automobile world for longer than most people on this forum have been alive. Turbines, compressors, etc.

I was just wondering if this was a common thing. The more people that do it the more information I have access to if I ever wanted to do it.

 

[Wes06]

yea fyi, tech would be you have a problem actually installing said twin-charging setup, just asking about the twin-charger setup isnt tekk worthy around these parts

 

[RocketcarX]

Compound boost, nothing new, even since 2003.

Oh, and BTW, this really isn't Tech. Unless you've been living under a rock for the last 25 years.

Does it have to be new to be tech? Just curious, seems to be a sorta unwritten tech code I'm trying to get the hang of too.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

So exactly where would be the best spot for this thread? I'm a little confused as to how this isn't "tech," as it's a thread about a technology applicable to the cars.

 

[rebus]

Heat kills!!! Twinchargers are useful for achieving high boost at the expense of high heat due to the poor adiabatic efficiency of the combination. A turbo by itself at the same boost level will be much cooler. and two turbos in series would be cooler as well.

 

[Wes06]

tech in this forum, is actually wrenching on the car, "is this turbo facing the right way", does this naws bottle fit with the big red button on my shifter.

Actually just talking about the Technology behind something but not actually doing it, is Chit Chat.

Just letting you know before some of the more, verbal members show up.

Agreed about two turbo's would be an easier setup to use, get a smaller one to spool instantly and a larger one to kick in when the smaller is up and getting wound out

 

[weather man]

TTOTD!

 

[NUTCASE]

twin charging is fun to talk about but unless you are trying to get over 4 digit power numbers there is really no reason to implement. there are turbo AND supercharger setups that can get 900+ to the wheels. and with the size of our motors spool is not an issue like it is with smaller 4 and 6 cyl engines.

with the right sized turbo combined with technologies like WOT box, 2 steps, and newer style boost controllers spool really should not be an issue.

 

[stkjock]

Please review our posting rules

http://s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30272

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Moved


Nah, we never heard of it....

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49583&highlight=Compound+boost


http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74321&highlight=Compound+boost

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84151&highlight=Compound+boost

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65335&highlight=Compound+boost

 

[Clipboard]

IRC compound boost is just for show because the supercharger becomes a bottle-neck. not saying it doesnt work, just doesnt work as well as just 1 or the other.

 

[warpig12354]

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...62297-2010-gt500-hellion-twin-turbo-sale.html

 

[Greg Hazlett]

Turbo lag is the only real downside to a turbo only system.

There are so many questions I have about the setup on a system like that. The first being where the smell is the blow off valve gonna go? Before the super and after the turbo? Hahaha idk. But you're right, doing something like would take a thick checkbook and someone who knows the tuning inside and out.




I'll have to look into that, just for curiosities sake. Can't imagine it's cheap.

Not sure what turbo setup you are referring to but turbo's have made a lot on improvements recently to combat the lag and they spool a lot sooner; changing the inlet/outlet size has helped, billet wheels, triple ceramic ball berarings, etc....Comp has recently released a 67/70 turbo that will hit full boost by 3500 rpms's.

There will be a GT 500 with compound boost at the MIR track rental, curious to see how it does.

 

[sportinawoody]

i saw that white shelby setup with a big single and eaton that had done the twins prior at bradenton for the opening nmra race 3 years ago when matt d debuted is 5.0 car. that thing sounded wicked and left so violently he never got to make a clean run for loss of traction. he was in mm&ff's a while back making i think over 1000rwhp

 

[Full_Tilt]

This is something Ive researched a bit, and it is definitely nothing new. I found some pics of this being done that were on black and white film

Heres how it breaks down.
With a setup like this you get the advantage of having higher manifold pressures than the pressures found inside the turbo manifolds, due to the supercharger. So, just like with a normal supercharger setup, you get a lot of scavenging effect which helps make power and reduce heat by clearing the cylinder. This means more timing and/or more boost.
Also, the supercharger helps the turbo(s) spool easier, so you can run a higher A/R turbine housing, which make more power without sacrificing spool.

All together, if you have a supercharger running at low speed (wherever its most efficient), and the turbos on top of that making most of your boost, you can make lots of power with a nicely shaped powerband.

Its a cool idea and it does work well, but its also expensive and complex. As much as I like it, Im not sure Id ever do it, Im a road racer and I dont think I could ever justify the added weight up front.

EDIT:
Also, modern turbos have almost zero lag. Lag is different than being below boost threshold.

 

[Swarzkopf]

This has been done a bit on the GM 3800 platform with great results. It's a little tougher to spool a big turbo on those engines, so the positive displacement blower really helps out down low.

I can't imagine this being advantageous on an 8-cylinder...seems like even bigger turbos spool really fast on average sized V8s, and the blower would just be a restriction.