welded axles on coyotes

[BMR Tech]

I have the 3v, however one would think that because the main diffrence between the coyote and 3v rears is the gears the better question should be at what 60' should I consider welding the axle tubes?


a 1.6 60' hooking in a 3400 lb car is the same amount of force whether a 3v or a coyote is pushing it.

Not necessarily. It is actually a little more complicated than that. You can have a 600 HP vehicle, spinning tires, cutting a 1.6 and a 300 HP car dead hooking, cutting a 1.60.

Correct, if the cars weigh the same, the force required to move that vehicle from 0mph to 60mph is similar - yet the effect on the rear axle is substantially different.

Twisted axle tubes actually seem to appear on higher powered cars, with drag radials. It does happen on aggressive slick cars, too.....but is most likely to happen on a "lesser" hooking car.

When tires play the game of hooking, spinning, hooking - in succession, that is the worst possible scenario for the parts on a vehicle. The shock from this is greater than a slick car launching at 7K RPM and dead hooking. The reason is, if you have a wheel spinning 70mph, but the car is only moving 20mph....when the tire does gain traction, the load is tremendous on the drivetrain and rear axle components.

We used to, years ago, base our recommendations (welding, etc) on sixty-foot times - but the only way you can do that is if every single car get's to the sixty foot beam in the same exact manner; impossible.

Never thought about it, has there been problems with the relocation brackets twisting and/or breaking off??

You are fine. We have not had a single incident/failure/bend/break with the (3) hole brackets that we have been shipping for years now.

The older (2) hole design was not as strong - and really needed to be welded on a drag racing application. But, even then, I have seen improper welds lead to failures. We would have people weld their brackets in, race the car, have a weld fail - causing the entire bracket to damage, and call us to say our brackets broke - when it was the weld separating that caused the bracket to bend/break/crack.

Enter 2010 - the year we completely re-engineered our CAB005 Brackets. Tested, tried and true on hundreds of <1.4 sixty foot passes, MANY 1.3's....and can even claim low 1.30's - bolted, not welded.

 

[BadPiggy]

I get so warm & fuzzy when Kelly starts talking technical stuff.
I actually feel like I'm learning something.

Not necessarily. It is actually a little more complicated than that. You can have a 600 HP vehicle, spinning tires, cutting a 1.6 and a 300 HP car dead hooking, cutting a 1.60.

Correct, if the cars weigh the same, the force required to move that vehicle from 0mph to 60mph is similar - yet the effect on the rear axle is substantially different.

Twisted axle tubes actually seem to appear on higher powered cars, with drag radials. It does happen on aggressive slick cars, too.....but is most likely to happen on a "lesser" hooking car.

When tires play the game of hooking, spinning, hooking - in succession, that is the worst possible scenario for the parts on a vehicle. The shock from this is greater than a slick car launching at 7K RPM and dead hooking. The reason is, if you have a wheel spinning 70mph, but the car is only moving 20mph....when the tire does gain traction, the load is tremendous on the drivetrain and rear axle components.

We used to, years ago, base our recommendations (welding, etc) on sixty-foot times - but the only way you can do that is if every single car get's to the sixty foot beam in the same exact manner; impossible.




You are fine. We have not had a single incident/failure/bend/break with the (3) hole brackets that we have been shipping for years now.

The older (2) hole design was not as strong - and really needed to be welded on a drag racing application. But, even then, I have seen improper welds lead to failures. We would have people weld their brackets in, race the car, have a weld fail - causing the entire bracket to damage, and call us to say our brackets broke - when it was the weld separating that caused the bracket to bend/break/crack.

Enter 2010 - the year we completely re-engineered our CAB005 Brackets. Tested, tried and true on hundreds of <1.4 sixty foot passes, MANY 1.3's....and can even claim low 1.30's - bolted, not welded.

 

[Tight Lines]

Not necessarily. It is actually a little more complicated than that. You can have a 600 HP vehicle, spinning tires, cutting a 1.6 and a 300 HP car dead hooking, cutting a 1.60.

Correct, if the cars weigh the same, the force required to move that vehicle from 0mph to 60mph is similar - yet the effect on the rear axle is substantially different.

Twisted axle tubes actually seem to appear on higher powered cars, with drag radials. It does happen on aggressive slick cars, too.....but is most likely to happen on a "lesser" hooking car.

When tires play the game of hooking, spinning, hooking - in succession, that is the worst possible scenario for the parts on a vehicle. The shock from this is greater than a slick car launching at 7K RPM and dead hooking. The reason is, if you have a wheel spinning 70mph, but the car is only moving 20mph....when the tire does gain traction, the load is tremendous on the drivetrain and rear axle components.

We used to, years ago, base our recommendations (welding, etc) on sixty-foot times - but the only way you can do that is if every single car get's to the sixty foot beam in the same exact manner; impossible.




You are fine. We have not had a single incident/failure/bend/break with the (3) hole brackets that we have been shipping for years now.

The older (2) hole design was not as strong - and really needed to be welded on a drag racing application. But, even then, I have seen improper welds lead to failures. We would have people weld their brackets in, race the car, have a weld fail - causing the entire bracket to damage, and call us to say our brackets broke - when it was the weld separating that caused the bracket to bend/break/crack.

Enter 2010 - the year we completely re-engineered our CAB005 Brackets. Tested, tried and true on hundreds of <1.4 sixty foot passes, MANY 1.3's....and can even claim low 1.30's - bolted, not welded.

I was just wondering as that looked like a lot of suspension work as well as the tubes welded. Figured it was a high powered car. By no means questioning the brackets as mine are not welded it in.

Carry on.

 

[NUTCASE]

how much should I expect to pay for such an operation? on the other page it looks like they took the whole axel out and apart, that could be costly labor.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

how much should I expect to pay for such an operation? on the other page it looks like they took the whole axel out and apart, that could be costly labor.

You HAVE to take the axle out and disassemble it to weld the tubes. No way around it.

I would remove and disassemble it myself and then take it to a shop if you can't weld it yourself.

 

[Greg Hazlett]

No you don't, that may be preferred but they do not have to.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

No you don't, that may be preferred but they do not have to.

You need to remove the axle and the internal components so you can brace up everything on a table.

Otherwise you run the risk of the axle warping under its own weight.

So yea, you "can" do it while it's still on the car, but you run some pretty big risks for what, a couple hours of labor with hand tools and some axle fluid? Certainly not worth it in my book.

Do it the right way or I would say don't do it at all. If you warp your axle or weaken it you will have some serious issues.

 

[Greg Hazlett]

Do you weld for a living?

 

[Roadracer350]

Why would you use Nickle rod? This makes absoulty no sense to me? If it was me I would just use regular carbon rod with a little preheat or chrome moly rod with no heat treat. Also who Tig'd that? It looks more like Mig and before you ask yes I am and have been welding and fabricating for over 15 years.

 

[2013DIBGT]

JB Weld Anyone....

3900+ psi holding strength on the seams would be stronger then nothing at all, right?

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Do you weld for a living?

The guy who welded my axle does.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Why would you use Nickle rod? This makes absoulty no sense to me? If it was me I would just use regular carbon rod with a little preheat or chrome moly rod with no heat treat. Also who Tig'd that? It looks more like Mig and before you ask yes I am and have been welding and fabricating for over 15 years.

You would use a nickel rod because it's softer. If you TIG weld it without a nickel rod, there's a chance you may see cracking in the weld.

We tried it without a Ni rod and the weld had cracks.

And yes, we ended up MIG welding it. Which is what I would recommend over TIG.

 

[Roadracer350]

The reason you got cracks with the Tig is because the pumpkin is cast and the axles are 1018. If you used high carbon rod weather you use preheat or not it will crack or he did not use the correct gas. I have welded up 2 rear ends here in tulsa with Silicon Bronze or you can braze it which is the best. You can use High Nickle rod but you will have to preheat the cast section to red hot and then you risk a LOT of warpage.

 

[nasty281]

As tedious this work sounds I may just opt for a brace. No way I want to take so many risks..especially since I don't have a trusted welder. What I also have gathered is its not the technique used but how the actual welding is done, in order to prevent warping

 

[Greg Hazlett]

The guy who welded my axle does.

As does mine who did it with the axles in the car.....my point is you came on here and said " axles HAVE to be removed to weld the tubes" and that is simply not true....it is a matter of opinion/preference.

 

[Clipboard]

^^^^^^ that is a damn good job! I'm not going to push over 600 rwhp with mine...going to be ordering the che brace next week myself

 

[Roadracer350]

As does mine who did it with the axles in the car.....my point is you came on here and said " axles HAVE to be removed to weld the tubes" and that is simply not true....it is a matter of opinion/preference.

I agree. Both cars I have done the rear end was actually still in the car! It's all in how you tack it up and where you put your heat IF you know what your doing.

 

[rojizostang]

for the guys who weld them still in the car with the axles installed.....did you drain the fluid? just wondering if i decide to have this done, thanks.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

As does mine who did it with the axles in the car.....my point is you came on here and said " axles HAVE to be removed to weld the tubes" and that is simply not true....it is a matter of opinion/preference.

Allow me to rephrase my previous statement.

To do this the foolproof way the axles has to be removed and disassembled, or you run a much greater risk of warping it. I do not believe in cutting corners, therefore there was no decision for me between removing the axle or not.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

The reason you got cracks with the Tig is because the pumpkin is cast and the axles are 1018. If you used high carbon rod weather you use preheat or not it will crack or he did not use the correct gas. I have welded up 2 rear ends here in tulsa with Silicon Bronze or you can braze it which is the best. You can use High Nickle rod but you will have to preheat the cast section to red hot and then you risk a LOT of warpage.

You don't have to preheat to red hot. Yes you should preheat, but not THAT much. Hell, we preheated with a handheld propane torch when me MIG welded mine.

I can tell you this though, MIG is far and above the way to go on this. The whole point of the procedure is to reinforce the relationship between the tubes and housing, and a good way to do that is with more material.

Here's a TIG welded one:

Here's my MIG welded one:

And while more material and a larger weld doesn't guarantee a stronger bond, the likelihood of such is much improved.