What timing MAP to pull timing from for nitrous?

[Alfiedagr8]

The reason I said above .7 is because between .3 and .7 in ur cruise and slight tip in Removing timing from here will make ur car feel sluggish around normal city driving.

Ok what i do and suggest is simply forget MBT it MKT is lower anyways at WOT than MBT. And some tables are different so becareful on the last not when he said on top. My table and sofware show WOT on the lower end of the graph. Anyways. Just remove 3 deg from .7 to .9 which is the end through the rpm range ur gonna use ur nitrous. Unusually change all rpm ranges for customer. Better safe than sorry. And as far as IPC.

IPC is a software than the new fed PCM has in the main processor. What it does is monitors driver desire torque and compares it to an actual calculated torque and takes appropriate attraction. And because the main processor along with the IPC are subject to the same failure mode they added an E qizzer. The E quizzed job is to act as a "watch dog" and checking the IPC is doing it's job. And if the E quizzed feels that the IPC is impaired it will go to a FMEM. " wrench light".
Having that said. I do alot of supercharging and turbo tunes. And if this scalar is moved up. Then a wrench lamp will turn on and go into FMEM. So it's a MUST. I use the number 500,000 works great. I'm sure other software may do it a different way but this is how I do it. Again I'm not here to talk smack. Just here to help.

 

[lito]

Having that said. I do alot of supercharging and turbo tunes. And if this scalar is moved up. Then a wrench lamp will turn on and go into FMEM. So it's a MUST. I use the number 500,000 works great. I'm sure other software may do it a different way but this is how I do it. Again I'm not here to talk smack. Just here to help.

No, is not a must and yes it can and it must be tuned you just don't know how.

I hope that won't come back to bite your ass by disabling the protection and getting a runaway car.

 

[Alfiedagr8]

Sorry for misspelled words using my iPhone and it autocorrects to words i don't mean to write. Anyways. U may get the bulk of it

 

[Alfiedagr8]

It's hasn't and I just raise the number. As I wrote above.

 

[Alfiedagr8]

And I ment to say up. I type fast. Didn't realize it . I'm on a phone. And yeah it's a must on turbo or supercharged cars to adjust.

 

[elky406]

I am under the impression that if you subract the 3 degrees from the BKT and add 4 degrees to MBT. This will only allow the car to run off the BKT as it is the lower of the 2 tables. I went and added 4 degrees to the whole MBT to make the car use the BKT.

I am not 100% sure if this is the correct/best way to do it but that is what I was advised to do. I only wanted to deal with one table (BKT) and not have to worry about tuning 2 tables (BKT & MBT).

Its always a good idea to log it and check your sourse table.I believe its spark source 2 for borderline and spark source 1 for mbt.Also logging will tell you what load range your in to correct your mbt so that its going to be in the borderline table.

 

[elky406]

The reason I said above .7 is because between .3 and .7 in ur cruise and slight tip in Removing timing from here will make ur car feel sluggish around normal city driving.

Ok what i do and suggest is simply forget MBT it MKT is lower anyways at WOT than MBT. And some tables are different so becareful on the last not when he said on top. My table and sofware show WOT on the lower end of the graph. Anyways. Just remove 3 deg from .7 to .9 which is the end through the rpm range ur gonna use ur nitrous. Unusually change all rpm ranges for customer. Better safe than sorry. And as far as IPC.

IPC is a software than the new fed PCM has in the main processor. What it does is monitors driver desire torque and compares it to an actual calculated torque and takes appropriate attraction. And because the main processor along with the IPC are subject to the same failure mode they added an E qizzer. The E quizzed job is to act as a "watch dog" and checking the IPC is doing it's job. And if the E quizzed feels that the IPC is impaired it will go to a FMEM. " wrench light".
Having that said. I do alot of supercharging and turbo tunes. And if this scalar is moved up. Then a wrench lamp will turn on and go into FMEM. So it's a MUST. I use the number 500,000 works great. I'm sure other software may do it a different way but this is how I do it. Again I'm not here to talk smack. Just here to help.

I believe in the 05 and up cars there is a torque switch you can turn off in the system switchs that will disable tq mani and some monitoring.

 

[s8v4o]

Thanks for all the help guys! I just modified my BKT since it has lesser values in the area of the map that I need to modify for pulling the timing for the nitrous.

I took out 3 degrees for 3000+ RPMs and a load greater than .599+. I choose .599 because after looking at some of my datalogs the conditions existed that I was at WOT above 3000RPM and the load was around 0.63. Does this sound ok?

 

[Alfiedagr8]

Load should be at near 100 if not 100% but double check with your datalogging software. Some software for some reason shows different stuff. Luckly for me i datalogg with IDS. Just not ur spark adv before and after u changed it that way u know it worked.

 

[lito]

And I ment to say up. I type fast. Didn't realize it . I'm on a phone. And yeah it's a must on turbo or supercharged cars to adjust.

The ones that doesn't know how to properly tune a DBW system has to use that hack, yes a hack that disable the protection for a open throttle/runaway car.

Thanks for all the help guys! I just modified my BKT since it has lesser values in the area of the map that I need to modify for pulling the timing for the nitrous.

I took out 3 degrees for 3000+ RPMs and a load greater than .599+. I choose .599 because after looking at some of my datalogs the conditions existed that I was at WOT above 3000RPM and the load was around 0.63. Does this sound ok?

At your location you should be over 0.700 load @ WOT/3000rpm, MAF transfer has to be perfect or at least really close.

Load should be at near 100 if not 100% but double check with your datalogging software. Some software for some reason shows different stuff. Luckly for me i datalogg with IDS. Just not ur spark adv before and after u changed it that way u know it worked.

100% load at 3000?????

 

[s8v4o]

Load should be at near 100 if not 100% but double check with your datalogging software. Some software for some reason shows different stuff. Luckly for me i datalogg with IDS. Just not ur spark adv before and after u changed it that way u know it worked.

The ones that doesn't know how to properly tune a DBW system has to use that hack, yes a hack that disable the protection for a open throttle/runaway car.



At your location you should be over 0.700 load @ WOT/3000rpm, MAF transfer has to be perfect or at least really close.



100% load at 3000?????

I was reviewing older datalogs when coming up with those numbers. Most of the time the load was at .70 near 3000RPM at WOT except a couple times. These datalogs were when I was just using the livewire device to tune my car. As soon as traffic dies down I'm going to datalog my custom tune and see what values load gives me at and above 3000RPM. Just browsing my old datalogs I never saw load hit 100 percent. My max load was usually around 0.88 -0.89. This was also with a mostly stock motor, it may have had just a JLT CAI at the time. I will get updated numbers in an hour or so and post back. Thanks again guys!

 

[Alfiedagr8]

So let me get this straight u think it's wrong to increase the IPC allowable torque error limit? And it's hack? Haha. I had tunes that I had opened from STS and procharger and they also raised the limit. Some more than me. I double it to 50000 and STS uses 60000 for there limits.. So your saying both STS and procharger are hacks because they raise their number as I do? The company who makes my software even said that's the way to do it. Interesting. Anyways. I like to get more than two runs out of my car before it goes into FMEM. Anyways. U also said 100 load on 3000 rpm. ???? I don't know what software your using but my software displays 100% load as soon as I go to wot. I'm sure IDS is the beat datalogging software out there. By Far. Even off at idle Maybe ur confusing load with VE. Idk But my software kicks ass.

 

[s8v4o]

So let me get this straight u think it's wrong to increase the IPC allowable torque error limit? And it's hack? Haha. I had tunes that I had opened from STS and procharger and they also raised the limit. Some more than me. I double it to 50000 and STS uses 60000 for there limits.. So your saying both STS and procharger are hacks because they raise their number as I do? The company who makes my software even said that's the way to do it. Interesting. Anyways. I like to get more than two runs out of my car before it goes into FMEM. Anyways. U also said 100 load on 3000 rpm. ???? I don't know what software your using but my software displays 100% load as soon as I go to wot. I'm sure IDS is the beat datalogging software out there. By Far. Even off at idle Maybe ur confusing load with VE. Idk But my software kicks ass.

Link to said datalogger. I'm currently using SCTs Livelink for datalogging and the Pro Racer Package for tuning.

 

[lito]

So let me get this straight u think it's wrong to increase the IPC allowable torque error limit? And it's hack? Haha. I had tunes that I had opened from STS and procharger and they also raised the limit. Some more than me. I double it to 50000 and STS uses 60000 for there limits.. So your saying both STS and procharger are hacks because they raise their number as I do? The company who makes my software even said that's the way to do it. Interesting. Anyways. I like to get more than two runs out of my car before it goes into FMEM. Anyways. U also said 100 load on 3000 rpm. ???? I don't know what software your using but my software displays 100% load as soon as I go to wot. I'm sure IDS is the beat datalogging software out there. By Far. Even off at idle Maybe ur confusing load with VE. Idk But my software kicks ass.

So you think STS or Procharger are the kings of tuning???? give me a break, please.

When you raise the error limit you allow for more and if you set it at 500.000 as you said before you null its control. That is not the way of tuning, STS nor Procharger know what they are doing there, the thing is to calibrate the system so it matches and the error stays within limits. But because you don't know how it is done (and you will never know as long as you use an IDS as a logger) you think that is the way, stop defending what is wrong, a hack, and start searching and learning the proper way of doing things.

IDS best datalogger around? It is great to pinpoint and diagnose issues, but that is it. It is not and has never meant to be a calibration logging tool.

If according to you 100% load is reached as soon as you go WOT then why you suggest to work 70% for example??? If load is not a representation of VE, then what is it????

 

[Alfiedagr8]

When ur at wot at 3k. Does ur spark advanced is it near 18* or closer to 4*? Just wondering. Cause as far as I know my stuff shows up at 100% load.

 

[Alfiedagr8]

Alright. I'm not here to knock anyone on how they tune. But when I was shown how to the tuners showed me to raise the value to 50k. And go from there and also the software creators. Now i see alot of companies who also raise there number to about were my is at. Anyways. How do u do this? I'm not gonna sit here and argue or name call. Also u said about load. There is two different ways load is displayed actual and calculated like I said my Ids shows 100 as I go to wot. My hptuners software idk cause I just use it on gms. Anyways I feel the the load I see is a representation of current condition Possible VE. If that makes sense Anyways I can tell u are smart and are very strong in what u say. But enlighten me I'm always up for a good lessen. Also I don't think they ( sts and procharger) are king but I do respect them. So again not here to argue. And on ids yeah it wasn't ment to tune cars but the info doesn't make it incorrect either. With all my stuff I always been able tune a car and get a transfer function that works. And on the dyno it shows with a clean smooth line on af. So if u do ipc diff let me know. Maybe ur way is better who knows ?

 

[lito]

I am not sure if hptuners logger has what is needed to, guess not, for starters tables are improperly referenced as they are now.

Use hptuners for logging and you will find new stuff to work on. IDS? I have one too, use for flashing, program keys, awesome stuff for diagnosing but that is it.

Regarding IPC error, drive by wire tables have to be calibrated so sum torque error is below default limit, that is the idea. How to do it? I took a course for that with a Pro, recommend you to do so. This is not the "better" way, it is the "right" way.

If you want to get proper training on DBW contact Greg here: http://www.calibratedsuccess.com/ I understand he covers some Ford tuning with hptuners too, I may be wrong about that, contact him about, say Hi from me. I don't use HPt for Fords, software and logger is not complete.

Regarding load, analyze this, what does it tells you if load goes instantly to 100%? what happens if you go up or down in altitude, is load always 100%?

If load is 100% as soon as you floored, let's say 2000rpm, then how it would be load at peak torque???? 130%???

Most of FI companies just need something to get their product rolling out, if this kind of tuning gets products out of the door why invest in contract/train someone to develop a proper calibration? In that essence I personally think that STS does not even know how to design a proper turbo system, but that is just me.

Don't take this the wrong way but you sound to have a worthy background in the Ford service area but getting a 600$ tuning tool do not convert us in tuners right away. Training, testing, R&D more importantly, getting to know the physics behind what we are working on is what makes a tuner stand out among the tooners.

 

[1lowtoy]

I am not sure if hptuners logger has what is needed to, guess not, for starters tables are improperly referenced as they are now.

Use hptuners for logging and you will find new stuff to work on. IDS? I have one too, use for flashing, program keys, awesome stuff for diagnosing but that is it.

Regarding IPC error, drive by wire tables have to be calibrated so sum torque error is below default limit, that is the idea. How to do it? I took a course for that with a Pro, recommend you to do so. This is not the "better" way, it is the "right" way.

If you want to get proper training on DBW contact Greg here: http://www.calibratedsuccess.com/ I understand he covers some Ford tuning with hptuners too, I may be wrong about that, contact him about, say Hi from me. I don't use HPt for Fords, software and logger is not complete.

Regarding load, analyze this, what does it tells you if load goes instantly to 100%? what happens if you go up or down in altitude, is load always 100%?

If load is 100% as soon as you floored, let's say 2000rpm, then how it would be load at peak torque???? 130%???

Most of FI companies just need something to get their product rolling out, if this kind of tuning gets products out of the door why invest in contract/train someone to develop a proper calibration? In that essence I personally think that STS does not even know how to design a proper turbo system, but that is just me.

Don't take this the wrong way but you sound to have a worthy background in the Ford service area but getting a 600$ tuning tool do not convert us in tuners right away. Training, testing, R&D more importantly, getting to know the physics behind what we are working on is what makes a tuner stand out among the tooners.

Amen brother!
Just because you were taught the wrong way to do things doesn't make it right. Lito is a great tuner, so take his tips and learn from them.

 

[Alfiedagr8]

Oh trust me I don't knock on anyone. And like I said this is how I was shown to do it. And about Greg banish I know he is smart I'm planning to attend one of his classes and read his books. He does tech hotuners but only with gms. Again I was shown to raise that limit and go from there. And was told it wouldn't affect the PCM ability to catch a fault and I believed it since I had to replace a tp sensor 6 months ago or so. I still didn't really get what u ment bout IPC. The way I figured is raise it until the wrench lamp doesn't come on. And honestly I never had an issue with any tunes. Seams to run good and safe. I get what u mean on load. I double check on the way home thought it was weird that he got such a low load. My car goes to 90 asap as I go to wot. And because it's turbo goes up with boost to 150ish. Anyways I did it at even 1500 rpm and still at 90 but I figured it right since it's using the timing off the 90 load section. I know there is more than one way to skin a cat. But I have two different software telling me the same thing. Get what I mean. And on the note of sts not doing great tune. There is some truth to it. Reason y I retuned some sts kit was cause of drivability symptom customers had. Mostly in the morning. Couldn't figure out y it would rev up to 3k in start up and for the first minute the car was really jerky I mean just touch the pedal and it would jump. U couldn't even drive off safely. So I did it from scratch and works great. Any how. Any clarification would help. Like I said I don't talk smack just going base off what I was shown. I'm always up for suggestions and relearning anything.

 

[Alfiedagr8]

Also what software do u use and recommend. ?