What's the difference?

[07TGGT]

I've never seen this discussed before here and I trust you guys to give me some good information.

When I get my Paxton installed next year, I am wanting to replicate the Boss 302S remote breather can setup, which eliminates the PCV system.

This is what it looks like. I can't link the picture directly due to the DOD firewall settings. It should be on this page though.
http://bossmustangsonline.com/index.php?topic=880.100
EDIT: Post #119 made on 19 January 2013 by Jimmy Pribble


I am sourcing the Peterson Fluid System Can from Amazon and saw this remote breather can.
http://www.amazon.com/Peterson-Fluid-Systems-08-0410-Breather/dp/B003M8M4VU/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_1

And this is the one that the Boss 302S runs.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002GOPHRY/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=

Now my question is what is the difference between the two when it comes to thier operation? One has a breather, the other doesn't. I am assuming the first one I have linked releases the oil vapors into the atmosphere while the second one linked doesn't vent the oil vapors at all.

Is there any real benifit between one or the other?

 

[BruceH]

The first one is just a catch can, the pcv stays functional with it. The other one is a breather.

You will get different opinions on what's best. I like to keep the pcv system intact. That keeps the oil smell away and keeps vacuum on the motor.

Others like the breather/catch can because blowby doesn't go back into the intake. The active pcv version won't be able to get all the blowby so there will still be some making it's way to the intake and cylinders. I've had an active pcv system with up to 19psi and never had an issue with the residual oil causing any problems.

 

[07TGGT]

The first one is just a catch can, the pcv stays functional with it. The other one is a breather.

You will get different opinions on what's best. I like to keep the pcv system intact. That keeps the oil smell away and keeps vacuum on the motor.

Others like the breather/catch can because blowby doesn't go back into the intake. The active pcv version won't be able to get all the blowby so there will still be some making it's way to the intake and cylinders. I've had an active pcv system with up to 19psi and never had an issue with the residual oil causing any problems.

How can you tell the first is just a catch can and the other is a breather? Not trying to question your knowledge, I just would like to learn how to tell the difference.

I have a question, a few actually, but I'll make another thread as they are appropriate for Tech.

Now that I know which is which, I am leaning more towards the actual breather. I'm really not worried about the smell or fumes because my Mustang will no longer be a DD.

 

[BruceH]

Because it's attached to the motor and intake. It's just a catch can that condenses the vapors inbetween the motor and intake. A breather will only attach to the motor, not the intake. With a breather there isn't any vacuum pulling bad air out of the block, it just kind of pushes itself out as needed. It's more of a pressure equalizer than a breather.

 

[07TGGT]

Because it's attached to the motor and intake. It's just a catch can that condenses the vapors inbetween the motor and intake. A breather will only attach to the motor, not the intake. With a breather there isn't any vacuum pulling bad air out of the block, it just kind of pushes itself out as needed. It's more of a pressure equalizer than a breather.

Okay, that makes sense, but I was going to set it up the with one line attached to each valve cover. Just like the Boss 302S is setup. Only difference is that I would have the "catch can" with the breather on top in place of the big "breather" if I went with the catch can. I don't want to run PCV, well, untill I take it for the annual inspection

It would be able to function properly as a "breather" correct?

 

[ford20]

I just looked at a Boss 302S and now I'm confused as well. It looks like they are running the Peterson Can but they also seem to be running a breather. It seems like they still have the PCV system intact but at the same it they have some sort of breather feeding from somewhere but is it possible that it can be coming from the transmission? That just doesn't seem to make any sense to me though but then again I'm not that smart.

Also here is a quick article I dug up when I was researching this as well as I would like to have a catch can like the 302S cars have because well racecar

http://www.stangtv.com/tech-stories/engine/review-petersons-externally-vented-air-oil-separator/

Sorry for the giganatic picture.

 

[BruceH]

I'm seeing the intake ports capped off so it has to be a breather system. Maybe there is a hose we don't see or the top has a gap?

 

[07TGGT]

Sean, the PCV system is deleted on the Boss 302S. I can see how THAT picture might confuse you, but trust me, I've inspected the breather setup in person at my dealership. I'll upload pictures from my iPhone tomorrow that I took of it.

Here is a more clear picture.

The only thing I plan to do different is mount the breather can on the driver side strut tower by means of a fabricated bracket. Just like the Moroso catch can is mounted on the passenger side strut tower using the strut mount studs.

 

[07TGGT]

This is exactly how it is setup

Now, if I use the 08-0410 Remote Breather Can I will simply have to have one line that is AN-12 and the other AN-8.

 

[BruceH]

This was the one in your first link:

 

[07TGGT]

This was the one in your first link:

I can't see the picture due to DOD firewall settings. I'll look when I get to my CHU.

With either breather can (the 08-0410 is the more tall and skinny one with the breather on top, the 08-0400 the short and fat one) I am going to setup the same. Deleting the PCV system completely, exactly like the Boss 302S.

 

[Sky Render]

Um, there's got to be more to the 302S setup than the parts pictures you showed. Because unless I'm missing something, there is no vacuum or even ambient air applied to that breather setup. It looks like both valve covers are tied into a sealed catch can? In that case there would be no "breathing" at all and certainly no vacuum being applied to the crankcase.

There are three things you should never discuss with family and friends. They are: politics, religion, and PCV/breather/catch-can setups. All three topics lead to feuds.

That being said, your best bet to maintain vacuum on the crankcase--in my opinion--is to install two catch cans, one each directly in line with the two lines coming off of the factory valve covers. I would get two good catch cans, like the Peterson or Moroso ones, and plumb them with some strong lines that won't collapse under vacuum.

 

[BruceH]

Um, there's got to be more to the 302S setup than the parts pictures you showed. Because unless I'm missing something, there is no vacuum or even ambient air applied to that breather setup. It looks like both valve covers are tied into a sealed catch can? In that case there would be no "breathing" at all and certainly no vacuum being applied to the crankcase.

There are three things you should never discuss with family and friends. They are: politics, religion, and PCV/breather/catch-can setups. All three topics lead to feuds.

That being said, your best bet to maintain vacuum on the crankcase--in my opinion--is to install two catch cans, one each directly in line with the two lines coming off of the factory valve covers. I would get two good catch cans, like the Peterson or Moroso ones, and plumb them with some strong lines that won't collapse under vacuum.

If you look close the lid is oversized. It must vent through there.

 

[07TGGT]

This was the one in your first link:

Yeah, that's my mistake. I had the wrong link saved on my work computer that I had posted from.

That is not the setup I am talking about.

Um, there's got to be more to the 302S setup than the parts pictures you showed. Because unless I'm missing something, there is no vacuum or even ambient air applied to that breather setup. It looks like both valve covers are tied into a sealed catch can? In that case there would be no "breathing" at all and certainly no vacuum being applied to the crankcase.

There are three things you should never discuss with family and friends. They are: politics, religion, and PCV/breather/catch-can setups. All three topics lead to feuds.

That being said, your best bet to maintain vacuum on the crankcase--in my opinion--is to install two catch cans, one each directly in line with the two lines coming off of the factory valve covers. I would get two good catch cans, like the Peterson or Moroso ones, and plumb them with some strong lines that won't collapse under vacuum.

You're usually pretty knowledgeable but there's not more to it. If you look at the Peterson can, you can tell it vents through the lid. Peterson doesn't call it a breather can for nothing.

Also, if you input the part numbers for the hose into Summit's website you will see that they are rated to 350PSI, running oil through them under heat and vacuum. They're made specifically for applications such as this.

Two catch cans is a waste of money, especially with the above proven setup.

The point of this thread was to figure what the difference is between the two breather cans that I have linked from Amazon. Didn't want to turn this into a breather can setup debate.

If you look close the lid is oversized. It must vent through there.

This.

 

[kdanner]

I have the larger Petersen can, the lid is not sealed. You'd use either one of those cans the same way, connect both valve covers to them. The smaller can, as noted, does not have equal size hose fittings.

 

[Sky Render]

You're usually pretty knowledgeable but there's not more to it. If you look at the Peterson can, you can tell it vents through the lid. Peterson doesn't call it a breather can for nothing.

Oh, I didn't see that it was a "breather" can; I thought it was a sealed catch can. That setup should work fine if you don't want to keep the factory system.

Having 2 catch cans has the advantage of still using the factory setup.

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[07TGGT]

I have the larger Petersen can, the lid is not sealed. You'd use either one of those cans the same way, connect both valve covers to them. The smaller can, as noted, does not have equal size hose fittings.

Okay, so the only major difference is dimensions and the 8410 breather can has a breather on top instead of a vented lid like the 8400 uses.

Now being that the 8410 has two different size fittings, my only concern is that the smaller hose will cause more pressure equaling less flow, but will a smaller hose really make that much of a difference?

Oh, I didn't see that it was a "breather" can; I thought it was a sealed catch can. That setup should work fine if you don't want to keep the factory system.

Having 2 catch cans has the advantage of still using the factory setup.

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Yeah, I guess I should have said that in the beginning.

I don't want to keep the factory system at all. I'd rather eliminate the oil going through the intake completely instead of trying to "catch" most of it.