Whiteline Watts Link Failure

[2008 V6]

I don’t want to get into a flame war over this but I figured I would contribute something. Ford’s pannard bar location is a compromise - Why – Ground clearance for the street.
A proper panhard bar is heim or solid jointed, as long as possible and located as low as possible / parallel to the axle / ground (Which defines the roll center). This setup is light, strong and very efficient. With proper spring rates, suspension deflection is minimal on the track. Running a comparison between a proper watts link and the stock mounted pannard par is ludicrous - of course the watts will be better. I am a weight fanatic when it comes to racing – myself excluded. I would rather not add 20 to 30 lbs to the back of the car unless I had a class specific weight requirement to meet and if I did I would prefer to add it where I wanted it and not to an overly heavy axle and far back from the rotational center or the car.

There is nothing wrong with a straight axle on a smooth surface. Both wheels are parallel to the ground and stay that way. The axle can be modified to induce permanently fixed negative camber and or toe - in some circumstances more than 1+ degrees though I don’t recommend that much – bearing life is severely compromised. The problems arise when there are surface irregularities. With an independent rear suspension each wheel moves separately. With a straight axle, when one tire hits a bump, it affects the other. Irregular surfaces are a straight axles nightmare – overly raised apexes for example.
This is why I think for the weight class the BMW is far superior to the mustang just low on torque, which is usually what gets you to the next corner first.

 

[sheizasosay]

The problems arise when there are surface irregularities. With an independent rear suspension each wheel moves separately. With a straight axle, when one tire hits a bump, it affects the other. Irregular surfaces are a straight axles nightmare – overly raised apexes for example.
This is why I think for the weight class the BMW is far superior to the mustang just low on torque, which is usually what gets you to the next corner first.

This has nothing to do with the watts link vs a PHB. In NO way does a watts link even remotely equal IRS. I have read a review of someone who had just installed a watts link (Techco) and was in awe on how awesome the rear end was and how it was like an IRS. I'm assuming that you were trying to compare the two considering the portion of the post I quoted. If that's not what you mean, my apologies. I have seen that line of thought before.

 

[sheizasosay]

I think the differences between a PHB and any watts link become more evident on those road courses that have more tighter turns and esses vs. those circuits with long straights and high speed esses - all other suspension factors being equal. The more technical courses often require the car to make quicker transitions; fighting to keep the wheels planted as the weight and momentum of the car shifts - symmetrical vs. asymmetrical motion - that should lead to better lap times or improved session times after a 20 to 30 minute stint. It would be interesting to see the data though... an interesting physics and geometry problem to assess.

I kinda agree here. I think the more turns that are introduced, the more you will be able to see if there is a tangible gain. But like the pic Whiskey posted, you can see that the PHB bar does better turning left. So you can have a track with a bunch of right turns and only a few left turns...etc you see where I'm going. So the track would matter as you stated.

I think the other player will be wheel rates. You tie a car down enough and that watts vs PHB comparison is not gonna reveal much. At least that's the way it pans out in my head.

And what watts link would be compared? A chassis or a diff mounted? If the stop watch shows a difference in a PHB car vs a diff watts, you mine as well clock the chassis one aswell.

 

[2008 V6]

This has nothing to do with the watts link vs a PHB. In NO way does a watts link even remotely equal IRS. I have read a review of someone who had just installed a watts link (Techco) and was in awe on how awesome the rear end was and how it was like an IRS. I'm assuming that you were trying to compare the two considering the portion of the post I quoted. If that's not what you mean, my apologies. I have seen that line of thought before.

I was definitely not trying to compare an IRS to a WATTS. I didn’t try to convey that in any way.
I was saying that a panhard rod and a watts do the same task. With (On track axle movement) & the axle being properly sprung, the difference is minimal - Side deflection using a panhard bar isn't that much as shown previously in another post using the Pythagorean theorem as a basis. A panhard bar is much less in overall weight – sprung & not sprung. If the panhard bar is made to be as long as possible, parallel to the ground / axle and as low as possible on track difference should be minimal between the watts & panhard.
I did try to convey that an IRS suspension is vastly superior to a straight axle on a track with larger surface irregularities. The wheels are not connected to one another with IRS but are able to move in different planes and conform to the surface irregularities. An IRS is usually heavier in overall weight too but worth the sacrifice – My opinion - I do like BMWs for the weight class but here in Southern Kalifornia it seems as though there is a prick in each one trying to prove something – That they are idiots

 

[Torch_Vert]

Actually I wouldn't worry about it. If a weld is bad it would fail pretty quick. I have the program for making a football out of solid 4130CM but until somthing happened I'm not going to worry about it.

Not necessarily. My Whiteline Watts propeller failed about a week and a half ago, after almost a year on the car. Obvious bad weld (hole is nearly completely smooth)

Caused the lower arm to drop and drag on the road at highway speed:

Aggravating, sure, but Whiteline has been good to work with, the repair parts are on the way, and overall I find the Whiteline Watts to be more agreeable than the Fays2 I previously had in the car.

I've also seen a lot of ranting online about Whiteline using parts from North Korea...I have the warranty paperwork for my issue which lists the country of origin for every last bolt and washer. The only parts from Korea are the bushings (which didn't fail in any way) and they're from the Republic of Korea..That's SOUTHKorea folks...democratic, modern, etc, etc...

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

Not necessarily. My Whiteline Watts propeller failed about a week and a half ago, after almost a year on the car. Obvious bad weld (hole is nearly completely smooth)

Caused the lower arm to drop and drag on the road at highway speed:

Aggravating, sure, but Whiteline has been good to work with, the repair parts are on the way, and overall I find the Whiteline Watts to be more agreeable than the Fays2 I previously had in the car...

I'm interested in how your define "more agreeable" based on the photos above when you compared the Whiteline WL to the Fays2 that never had a failure like that....