WTB 3.4L Whipple for 3V

[strong_j]

Damn!! That's the power I'm gunning for as well. Lol.
That level you would be maxing out the kb as well. Just go procharger bro if u want blower. The race kit I'm looking at is the f1-c race cog kit. It's about 7g's and it'll put u where u want to be at. I can give u a link if you like.

 

[Department Of Boost]

The kb takes less drag to spin it, robbing less power, so you'll be the the "Slow3V". bwahahahahahaha!!!

Even if the KB takes less power to spin, I doubt it's much. Certainly not enough to cancel out a .6L displacement advantage.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Between 850 and 950.

You will have the KB completely maxed out looking for that kind of power. And it will suck on the street because of the speeds that the blower will be running at cruising RPM will generate LOTS of heat. For running down the track it wouldn't be a big deal because you can cool it down between runs. But a few stop lights and surface streets and you will be running IAT's that will already be on the edge of pulling timing. And that will cost you a couple hundred HP if you get in the throttle. Ask me how I know.

I don't know about a Centri blower. I've never seen a 3v making that sort of power. I'd think that it would be pretty soft down low to make that kind of power up top though.

If I were looking for that sort of power I would be looking at TT's. And if I wanted to make that sort of power and have it drivable I would be going compound boost.

There is a HUGE difference between "hero run" HP numbers and real life HP numbers.

 

[FAST3V]

I don't really have any doubt that 850-950 could be achievable with a 3.4l Whipple setup. IF, big if...and when I decide to sell my 2.3 and upgrade to something else, it would be a larger whipple...or possibly, but doubtfully a centri. I will never go TT..my motor is built for 1000, so I want to stay under that, yet get as close to that as I can.

I have one more pulley left myself, a 2.75...then I will be done...maxed out...right around the 18,000 mark for my blower. That will put me at about 720-750 just with the increase in boost. Right now, on 16psi..7.75 lower, 2.9 upper..stock throttlebody..im making 667, 664. With the increase in maybe 2lbs..and my monoblade throttlebody...Im hoping for 720.

Based on that...going from a 2.3 to a 3.4, on the same amount of boost...18ish? I should be making 850ish...wouldnt you say?

Whats the other great thing about a 3.4??? Oh yea..I can throw more boost at...lets go to 25lbs... chaching...Im making power.

 

[strong_j]

Bro trust me. The whipple is barely going to make more power after 16lbs. Take it from me. I have everything u can buy for the damn thing except the jpc intake stuff. It made 710 on e85. That's with the monoblade, whipple 2.3 (ported out by steggy), steeda 10 rib (most aggressive pullies they make suppose to be at 19lbs), comp stage 3 blower cams, race ported heads, 1 5/8 kooks long tubes, 9.1 compression. since everything is ported the car only makes about 17lbs of boost.
You won't be happy with all the money ur fixing to put into it. Save it and buy something else. I'm just trying to save u from the same mistake I made.
And I would pm ken3030 before going to the 3.4. He switched for a reason. U should know that reason before u run into something that wasn't foreseen. Im just giving u a heads up bro bro.
Good luck with the car.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I don't really have any doubt that 850-950 could be achievable with a 3.4l Whipple setup.

I don't see why not the GT500 guys make that kind of power.

I will never go TT..my motor is built for 1000, so I want to stay under that, yet get as close to that as I can.

I would think TT's or compound boosted TT's would be easier on the motor (less parasitic loss) than a purely belt driven setup. And keeping it under 1000 would be easy (and it would run cooler).

I have one more pulley left myself, a 2.75...then I will be done...maxed out...right around the 18,000 mark for my blower. That will put me at about 720-750 just with the increase in boost. Right now, on 16psi..7.75 lower, 2.9 upper..stock throttlebody..im making 667, 664. With the increase in maybe 2lbs..and my monoblade throttlebody...Im hoping for 720.

That's a lot of power out of a 2.3L. What fuel and timing are you running?

Based on that...going from a 2.3 to a 3.4, on the same amount of boost...18ish? I should be making 850ish...wouldnt you say?

With a Crusher inlet and a HUGE TB that is about (800) what I was expecting out of my car on 93 with 14-16deg of timimg.

Whats the other great thing about a 3.4??? Oh yea..I can throw more boost at...lets go to 25lbs... chaching...Im making power.

Yeah, that is the nice thing about the big blower. It has headroom. I don't like that I am running my KB near its max "duty cycle". It runs hotter than hell. I'd like to be running whatever I am running in the 65-75% range max. I'm running at 89% right now.

 

[strong_j]

You will have the KB completely maxed out looking for that kind of power. And it will suck on the street because of the speeds that the blower will be running at cruising RPM will generate LOTS of heat. For running down the track it wouldn't be a big deal because you can cool it down between runs. But a few stop lights and surface streets and you will be running IAT's that will already be on the edge of pulling timing. And that will cost you a couple hundred HP if you get in the throttle. Ask me how I know.

I don't know about a Centri blower. I've never seen a 3v making that sort of power. I'd think that it would be pretty soft down low to make that kind of power up top though.

If I were looking for that sort of power I would be looking at TT's. And if I wanted to make that sort of power and have it drivable I would be going compound boost.

There is a HUGE difference between "hero run" HP numbers and real life HP numbers.

I can't resist. How do u know?? Lol.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I can't resist. How do u know?? Lol.

Just driving around surface streets, sitting at lights, going through the drive through.........you know, normal driving my IAT's are STUPID because the blower speeds are so high (2275rpm at idle!). And I am running a crazy huge, completely custom IC/HE/pump combo that makes the big Afco look like it cams stock on something. Just driving around I have seen my IAT's get high enough at lights to start pulling timing (136deg).

Hell, my underhood temps go up 60-80deg just sitting through one light (I have a data acquisition system sampling everything)

Last time I was on the dyno we made a few runs with the car heat soaked like I had been driving it like a normal car. In just one run it would pull so much timing the car lost 150hp!

Did you know when your IAT's hit 225deg the car goes into limp home mode?

Bottom line, if I want to drive my car like a DD I need a bigger blower......or some turbo's

 

[MexGT]

With a Crusher inlet and a HUGE TB that is about (800) what I was expecting out of my car on 93 with 14-16deg of timimg.

800 rwhp with 93 pump? I'm no expert in the field but when I bought my 3.4 kit from Adam @ ST, he told me 650rwhp is really pushing it with 93 octane.

 

[strong_j]

800 rwhp with 93 pump? I'm no expert in the field but when I bought my 3.4 kit from Adam @ ST, he told me 650rwhp is really pushing it with 93 octane.

Hey how much was ur kit??

 

[Department Of Boost]

800 rwhp with 93 pump? I'm no expert in the field but when I bought my 3.4 kit from Adam @ ST, he told me 650rwhp is really pushing it with 93 octane.

I'm making that with a 2.6L sucking through a 94mm MAF, tubing and the "stock" very restrictive blower elbow on 93.

Opening up everything in front of the blower is good for another 75-100hp.

A 3.4L will make 800 easy.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Hey how much was ur kit??

Got some pics?

 

[strong_j]

Got some pics?

Pics of what??

 

[MexGT]

Hey how much was ur kit??

I dont recall an exact price for the SC kit, since when I ordered with him, I also bought forged assembly, suspension stuff, water pump, 8 rib pulleys, etc etc

I'm making that with a 2.6L sucking through a 94mm MAF, tubing and the "stock" very restrictive blower elbow on 93.

Opening up everything in front of the blower is good for another 75-100hp.

A 3.4L will make 800 easy.

well as I said, im no expert just repeating the words from the guy who knows his stuff ... lol, you could ask Lito, he knows the limits of this combination too using 93 oct pump gas. Adam knowing I have ported heads, cams, 3" full exhaust, 1 3/4 Lt's, monoblate TB, his custom rear intlet, etc.

Got some pics?

 

[Department Of Boost]

well as I said, im no expert just repeating the words from the guy who knows his stuff ... lol, you could ask Lito, he knows the limits of this combination too using 93 oct pump gas. Adam knowing I have ported heads, cams, 3" full exhaust, 1 3/4 Lt's, monoblate TB, his custom rear intlet, etc.

I can see why 650 is probably the point where that setup is maxing out. There is not nearly enough blower elbow volume to make BIG power. That’s probably 25% the size of the Crusher inlet. That elbow looks like it’s about the same size as my KB 2.6 and that sucker is too small for the 2.6L!

If you moved the blower forward or firewall back and ran a Crusher size elbow I’d bet dollars to donuts that you could make 800hp easy. A bigger elbow on my 2.6L is worth 75-100hp, I can’t imagine what it would be worth on a 3.4L blower.

I have mine mocked up to use the Whipple Crusher inlet but I had to move the blower forward a lot more than yours is. I’m making an intake from scratch though so moving it forward was no big deal.

If this is the setup that Ken3030 was running before he switched to the KB 2.8L it explains why the 2.8 made more power for him. I PM’d him and he said that the Whipple pulled real hard down low but ran out of juice up top. The elbow not having enough volume explains that. It has enough air to run in the lower RPM ranges but once up top it simply can’t get enough air into the blower. The 2.8 Mammoth elbow has enough volume to feed 800hp.

The comparison between the 3.4L and the 2.8L is not really a comparison between the blowers (in this application). It’s a comparison between the blower elbows.

As far as octane and HP goes there are a lot of factors in play. It’s about combo, combo, combo. My tuner has multiple 3v’s making 750-775rwhp on 93 in the 19-21psi range, (none of them turbo cars) and they are all used as “daily drivers”.

 

[MexGT]

I had to push back the firewall, massage or hit it if you want to see it that way for the elbow to fit, cause it is big and when I bought this kit, the crusher intlet from whipple wasnt on sale atm so thats why Adam fabbed this one.

And I dont see it similar to the 2.6 in ANY way ... lol seriously

might not be as effective as the crusher, who knows, give or take 50-65% the gains compared to the crusher, but my point is that I know its not this elbow the reason why he didnt said I could make 800rwhp on pump gas LOL thats just the point I was trying to make, still a great blower and you cant go wrong with it.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I had to push back the firewall, massage or hit it if you want to see it that way for the elbow to fit, cause it is big and when I bought this kit, the crusher intlet from whipple wasnt on sale atm so thats why Adam fabbed this one.



might not be as effective as the crusher, who knows, give or take 50-65% the gains compared to the crusher, but my point is that I know its not this elbow the reason why he didnt said I could make 800rwhp on pump gas LOL thats just the point I was trying to make, still a great blower and you cant go wrong with it.

What size upper and lower pulley are you running? What psi does it make?

I agree that the elbow size is not the only reason that you were told that 650 was the max for 93 on that combo. As I mentioned above its all about combo, combo, combo. I see you are still running a returnless system and stock fuel lines. I’m guessing your running GT500 pumps and a BAP with it also. My tuner won’t tune a 3v over 650hp without a return system. He doesn’t trust the consistency and reliability of the returnless system. And what are you running for a IC water pump and heat exchanger? Without some stout cooling my tuner won’t tune above 650 either.

Elbow size, or lack of it is a factor though. If it’s not big enough to feed the screws they end up “chopping air” and that spikes IAT’s fast! And obviously high blower discharge temps at WOT will limit what you can do with pump gas.

Like I said, lots of factors. It’s never as easy as it being just one thing. And as you improve one thing the thing “next to it” becomes a problem because it is at its limit. If it was easy everyone would have 750-800hp cars.

And please don’t think I’m going after you. I dig your setup. I wish my 3.4L was on my car and not on the shelf! I have a LOT of work to do before it’s installed and running. And I’ll also bet your car is SUPER SAFE at 650hp and not the furnace mine is at normal driving speeds.

 

[Department Of Boost]

And I dont see it similar to the 2.6 in ANY way ... lol seriously

might not be as effective as the crusher, who knows, give or take 50-65% the gains compared to the crusher.

Can you take a measurement at the two points in the pic? Is your car handy? I’d like to calculate the elbow volume or at least the cross section and see what it is in comparison to the Crusher and the 2.6L KB. Calculating that angle is going to be fun! LOL!

If you can do it in mm great, if not I can convert SAE over to metric.

When looked at as percentages the information could be interesting.

Thanks

 

[tached_out]

I have one of adams old kits too and we were not to big on the intake so I had them fab me up a new one. Not sure how big of a deal this would make but it had pretty large welds on the inside and the one that I got had hard angles not smooth curves. Not sure how much a big factor this plays into things, I should have mine tuned soon to see what my set up made.

We also changed the direction of his intake to the stock location. This was done so I don't have to change the location of the computer and stuff. I am sure there may be a temp difference, but I highly doubt its going to make a huge difference in performance and if it does, I do have a function cowl hood.

We are tuning on e85, pump, c16, and pump/mix. The pump tune is just a ooo shit i am out of gas type of thing.

 

[my07silvergt]

"RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE!" (Altered beast reference)

Over 3 years since last post, just sayin.....lol