From Koni to bilstein. I've seen the light. Thanks vorshlag!

[Boaisy]

I'm loving mine since December, even with the snowy weather the past couple of days. It is nice and smooth vs. stock setup. Just itchin' to get more track time with it.

 

[white86hatch]

I'm loving mine since December, even with the snowy weather the past couple of days. It is nice and smooth vs. stock setup. Just itchin' to get more track time with it.

If I can get my brakes and expansion tank on this Saturday I'll enter an autocross Here on Sunday. I'm slightly excited to see how actually having negative camber and decent dampers will make the car feel.

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

So what advantages do these offer over another brand of shock/strut for street use? Sell me on them!!!!!!

 

[modernbeat]

So what advantages do these offer over another brand of shock/strut for street use? Sell me on them!!!!!!

Shorter bodies so you can run inexpensive lowering springs without bottoming out.

We've measured a lot of lowering springs and have selected a few that are appropriate for both the Bilstein valving and have good front-to-rear spring ratios.

The valving is firmer than stock, but it's not a competition setup. These are great for daily drivers, yet they don't fall on their face on track like the stock stuff does.

Bilstein longevity.

 

[tbrock]

Shorter bodies so you can run inexpensive lowering springs without bottoming out.

We've measured a lot of lowering springs and have selected a few that are appropriate for both the Bilstein valving and have good front-to-rear spring ratios.

The valving is firmer than stock, but it's not a competition setup. These are great for daily drivers, yet they don't fall on their face on track like the stock stuff does.

Bilstein longevity.

Driving a super charged 07 Shelby GT looking for a better strut/shock to replace the FRP set that have 50k on them. In your opinion/experience the Bilsteins are better than the Koni Yellow and/or D specs for DD, and the occasional track day? Only other suspension mod is new BMR watts setup (soon), LCA relo brackets and billet LCA's. Car sees 1-2 open track days per year, and cruising. Should I have a firmer spring up front with the added weight of the SC'r?

 

[kcbrown]

Shorter bodies so you can run inexpensive lowering springs without bottoming out.

I don't quite understand why having shorter bodies alone would prevent a lowered car from bottoming, unless the other (e.g., Koni) struts would bottom with the stock springs as well.

Let's say that the amount of available vertical travel with the stock ride height and "other" dampers is 4 inches from ride height to fully compressed, and another 3 inches from ride height to fully extended, for 7 inches total travel. Now you lower your car by an inch. Your available vertical travel in compression is now 3 inches. With these "other" dampers, the available vertical travel in extension is now 4 inches. All you're doing is changing the equilibrium point in the range of travel.

Let's say the Bilsteins are shorter by an inch, and it is shorter such that the distance from (lowered) ride height to full extension is 3 inches, and the distance from ride height to full compression is also 3 inches.

Well, in that case, compression distance is equal for both. If the Bilsteins aren't bottoming, then why would the "other" dampers necessarily bottom?

Yes, the new ride height results in the equilibrium point being centered in the range (or, perhaps, maintaining the same ratio of extension range to compression range). But how is that itself any benefit whatsoever?

 

[JPC]

3 week update on Vorshlag's Bilstein coilovers


Brought the Boss to Vorshlag for a open track track inspection and all was fine
I've been running the car on the street since Jan 24th
I love the flat cornering, ZERO noise,


I'm going back to Eagles Canyon on a Open Track Day Saturday Feb 21st
Ping me if you're in the DFW area and want to see on track performance.

[email protected]

 

[5.0 Probie]

Glad you are happy OP. We love ours. Well once we got our alignment where the car responded accurately we loved them =]

We have a tad to much hyper activity in bouncing as a DD. But loves corners and makes the Pirelli's act like the cheap ass tires that they are. We plan to get Michelin Pilot's as replacements...

 

[csamsh]

I don't quite understand why having shorter bodies alone would prevent a lowered car from bottoming, unless the other (e.g., Koni) struts would bottom with the stock springs as well.

Let's say that the amount of available vertical travel with the stock ride height and "other" dampers is 4 inches from ride height to fully compressed, and another 3 inches from ride height to fully extended, for 7 inches total travel. Now you lower your car by an inch. Your available vertical travel in compression is now 3 inches. With these "other" dampers, the available vertical travel in extension is now 4 inches. All you're doing is changing the equilibrium point in the range of travel.

Let's say the Bilsteins are shorter by an inch, and it is shorter such that the distance from (lowered) ride height to full extension is 3 inches, and the distance from ride height to full compression is also 3 inches.

Well, in that case, compression distance is equal for both. If the Bilsteins aren't bottoming, then why would the "other" dampers necessarily bottom?

Yes, the new ride height results in the equilibrium point being centered in the range (or, perhaps, maintaining the same ratio of extension range to compression range). But how is that itself any benefit whatsoever?

Because we don't care about extension, and the compression travel on a bilstein is greater than on a stock- type strut at a lowered ride height

 

[claudermilk]

... and makes the Pirelli's act like the cheap ass tires that they are...

Hell, the STOCK suspension does that when you really push the car.

 

[kcbrown]

Because we don't care about extension, and the compression travel on a bilstein is greater than on a stock- type strut at a lowered ride height

So stock type struts will bottom with stock springs? If not, why not (i.e., what's so special about stock springs that they keep the struts from bottoming)?

If they do, then that's a design flaw for sure, one that I'm happy that Bilstein has corrected.


Let me put it another way. The stock spring rate up front is 131 lb/in. If you lower the front by an inch, and you originally had 4 inches of compression travel, then that means that the new springs have to have a rate of 175 lb/in (131 * 4/3) in order to achieve exactly the same force at full compression. If the stock-type strut isn't bottoming with stock springs, then it won't bottom when lowered with springs of at least 175 lb/in. That assumes, of course, that the stock springs aren't getting into coil bind or something during compression.

And the more compression travel you started with before lowering, the less additional spring rate you'll need in order to get the same spring force at full compression once you've lowered the car.

 

[csamsh]

So stock type struts will bottom with stock springs? If not, why not?

If they do, then that's a design flaw for sure, one that I'm happy that Bilstein has corrected.

Not with stock springs, but who wants to run stock springs? Aftermarket springs beyond maybe an inch of lowering will be all over the front bumpstops

 

[kcbrown]

Not with stock springs, but who wants to run stock springs? Aftermarket springs beyond maybe an inch of lowering will be all over the front bumpstops

With sufficiently stiff springs, why would that be? Please refer to my edited message above. With 175 lb/in or more up front, the front springs will provide at least as much force at full compression as the stock springs (this assumes 4 inches of compression travel with stock springs. If you started with a stock value of 3 inches of compression travel, then 197 lb/in gets you the same force at full compression with an inch of lowering. I don't know what the actual value is for the stock compression travel. If someone knows, please tell!).

Of course, if it's the sum of the forces during the travel that matters, then the distance becomes a square term, and for 4 inches of stock compression travel, the spring rate for the lowered car (which now has 3 inches of compression travel) would have to be at least 233 lb/in. With 3 inches of stock compression travel, the new spring rate would have to be 295 lb/in.

 

[jmauld]

The stock system will bottom out with sticky tires.

 

[csamsh]

Well, with something like a koni yellow, to get the spring rate high enough to not bottom out, you get too much spring for the damper. in a motorsports setting with no regard paid to suspension or damping calculators

 

[kcbrown]

Well, with something like a koni yellow, to get the spring rate high enough to not bottom out, you get too much spring for the damper. in a motorsports setting with no regard paid to suspension or damping calculators

Oh. It just occurred to me that you're talking about bottoming out in roll. That's happening because lowering the car adds roll moment up front (due to the roll center dropping further than the amount you lowered the car). So you need additional spring rate just to counteract that. I've computed that in the past so I should be able to factor it in.

How high a spring rate is needed with the Konis to keep them from bottoming if the car is lowered an inch? The dyno plots say that the Konis should be able to properly damp as much as (if I recall correctly) 400 lb/in up front.

 

[Boaisy]

450+?

 

[sheizasosay]

Well, with something like a koni yellow, to get the spring rate high enough to not bottom out, you get too much spring for the damper. in a motorsports setting with no regard paid to suspension or damping calculators

So did Sam Strano just drive around on the bumpstops the whole time he was winning national championship(s)?. I mean it is well known he was on the super-low H&R springs. Any insight into that?

 

[csamsh]

So did Sam Strano just drive around on the bumpstops the whole time he was winning national championship(s)?. I mean it is well known he was on the super-low H&R springs. Any insight into that?

No he won his championships in stock class mostly, where stock springs are all you can use

Look I'm not saying it doesn't work- I'm saying I don't like it. I also don't like glocks, but they work just fine.

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

This isnt helping me spend 900 bucks on a set, lol.