Did I get ripped by bbr.

[Marc s]

Marc I think you said it 100 percent correctly. If they would have been honest and told me it wouldnt be right and it would need datalogged and that I would have needed a wide band to do so that I would have never even considered. They also had me questioning my installation and other parts on my car that there was nothing wrong with. I just feel like a load was lifted now that it runs correctly I can sleep better at night really I can. lol

Then it all worked out well. At the end of the day, your car runs great, your a little wiser, and you passed on some knowledge.

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

Marc, more business owners should be like you.

 

[Dillon Dollar]

I really dont know what to say to this thread but this forum when i first came to it was good and had what i thought to be very mature people, not pointing fingers or saying names but this thread is sad, it seems like if anyone has a bad experience with a vendor they go on here and bash them and eveyone just jumps on the band wagon .... This is supposed to be the best s197 tech on the web not the biggest trash talking forum on the net, I sware its almost like reading a thread off of camaor 5.





On that note you hope you guys have a nice night

 

[Tre06GTP1SC]

Speaking from experience, sometimes posting a thread like this is the last resort. And for the most part said vendor usually steps in and makes it right. Also threads like this inform "Our" community and help them to decide for themselves.

 

[Dillon Dollar]

Speaking from experience, sometimes posting a thread like this is the last resort. And for the most part said vendor usually steps in and makes it right. Also threads like this inform "Our" community and help them to decide for themselves.

I understand that aspect of it iv just been seeing these threads more and more on this forum and eventually their wont be any good vendors left on here because we the consumers ran them off. Everyone is just human their is always two sides to a story im not wanting to get into the actual argument of what happened just stating that, we as a forum community need to stop this shit before it gets out of hand.

 

[AbdullaGT500]

If they were good vendors we wouldn't have threads like this. They know they are wrong, yet they refuse to admit and beat around the bush by posting a shitty response like Steve did. All it would have taken was for them to give the man a refund and move on, no lost money or effort.

These threads are great in that we can learn which vendors have good customer service and which ones do not. There are several threads regarding how good certain vendors' customer service is, and also several about bad customer service. Any company makes mistakes, it is the way they deal with the mistakes that makes a difference in customer satisfaction.

 

[Rasmus]

What I enjoy very much about this forum is that nobody is above being crucified if the situation has called for it -- not saying that it does, or does not, in this case. On very many other forums vendors are above the law, and anyone speaking up against them gets shut down fast, threads disappear, people wake up with a horse's head, and so on.

While I will always maintain that there must logically be three sides to every story, I do think threads like this -- where both parties have been given their fair share of the spotlight -- can be very informative. If shit gets swept under the rug, shit can't get dealt with. Quite frankly, this shit stinks.

 

[Tre06GTP1SC]

I understand that aspect of it iv just been seeing these threads more and more on this forum and eventually their wont be any good vendors left on here because we the consumers ran them off. Everyone is just human their is always two sides to a story im not wanting to get into the actual argument of what happened just stating that, we as a forum community need to stop this shit before it gets out of hand.

I understand what your saying. But, the good vendors have nothing to worry about. I think this forum does a good job of pointing out what is good and what is bad.

 

[Dillon Dollar]

I understand what your saying. But, the good vendors have nothing to worry about. I think this forum does a good job of pointing out what is good and what is bad.

yes I agree with you completely, but some people get on these massive threads just to fuel the fire and that doesnt get things fixed just makes everything worse. its like a placibo effect. What actually needs to happen is when something like this happens people who are not directly involved should not be allowed to post but allowed to read for educational reasons.. Im not saying everyone is stupid or ignorant because they arent but some people just like to watch shit burn. I dont know fellas thats just my .02 and im sure the issue will be resolved eventually

have a nice night guys this guy is out ...

 

[kdanner]

Have to disagree with you slightly, at least in the case of the 2011+ Mustangs.

The 2011+ Mustangs, from V6, GT, Boss and Shelby all come equipped with factory wideband and knock sensors. It is not difficult to dial them in remotely since they trim off of those sensors.

Now messing with their cam timing is another story though.

This exactly. They're far easier. People need to stop using the mindset of the older cars that ran open loop at WOT. 2011+ just really don't need a dyno tune. It's a tool that can be used to go hunting for more power out of one, but shouldn't ever have a thing to do with it running right. Then again, power seen by changing things on the dyno doesn't necessarily translate to actual performance either, look at the useless CAIs that show power on the dyno.

 

[Flapjack]

I wanted to chime in with my experiences with email tunes.

My first was a was an RPM Outlet tune (George) for my 05 V6 with a ProCharger P1SC (blow-thru). It helped that I had a wideband, but with datalogging and about 5-6 revisions, George had it perfect. Not only was this a V6 with a blow-thru ProCharger, but I was also at 6400ft in an brand new 2005 that most tuners were still trying to figure out (due to the new Spanish Oaks PCM).

Next was Doug from Bama. I was the first to try the brand new SSM stage 3 heads and cams for the 4.0L. I'm sure it was tough work, but with datalogging, Doug was able to nail it with only a few revisions.

After that was my 5.4L 3v with twin turbos, E85, 105lb injectors with no SCT value files available, custom JPC intake manifold, and whatever else I'm forgetting. Basically, my Legend Lime Frankenstein. Eric Brooks was able to nail it after, what... 4 or 5 revisions? As you can imagine, the car was carefully watched at the dyno, but ran just about perfect... just a little bit rich. Eric tweaked the commanded AFR a little and it was perfect. I'm sure this was done intentionally to keep it safe until I out it on the dunk.

So to say car cannot be remote-tuned is BS... especially with the newer Mustangs with their wideband O2s. You do, however, need to go with someone who knows their shit. It sounds to me like this is not one of BBR's strong suites. I will say that they've been nothing but good to me, with all my questions, and I haven't even bought anything yet. They even helped my buddy with quoting up a customized ProCharger kit for his 09 GMC Sierra, and they're not even a GM shop.

Sent from my Touchpad using Tapatalk

 

[bullitt0175]

Can't we all just get along

 

[bmaxwell]

Dillon Dollar, BBR has fucked up waaaay too much lately. Idk why you are defending them. Maybe if you have a dyno tune from directly from their shop I could see why. Yes I agree about some ppl fueling the fire just to do it but if BBR was a good vendor then I would think most would say so. I have not seen a many good remarks about them. I think every one I have seen may have been from you actually.

I think that if somebody has a big time problem with a major vendor who may be "cocky" and think they can just fuck over a customer here and there, they should be exposed without a doubt. I feel as if BBR thinks their tunes are straight from God himself

 

[UltraKla$$ic]

I really dont know what to say to this thread but this forum when i first came to it was good and had what i thought to be very mature people, not pointing fingers or saying names but this thread is sad, it seems like if anyone has a bad experience with a vendor they go on here and bash them and eveyone just jumps on the band wagon .... This is supposed to be the best s197 tech on the web not the biggest trash talking forum on the net, I sware its almost like reading a thread off of camaor 5.





On that note you hope you guys have a nice night

Whether there is or is not a "bandwagon effect" the common denominator here is said vendor's customer service and at times product offering(tunes) SUCK.... I held my tongue a long time, and it appears others have too, regarding the flailing customer service from BBR, not to mention tunes that are less than subpar.

For alot of us, this is not our first rodeo with knowing whether an email tune or a dyno tune will be adequate for our build. I've paid more money having my Harley tuned than most have invested in there whole car in this forum and the topic of email tunes vs. a dyno tune is not limited to the Mustang world only I assure you.

I agree a "dyno tune" is better than an email tune, HOWEVER, a dyno tune does little in real world driving conditions and tunes for WFO and A/F with a modest attempt at load bearing if the dyno tuner actually knows how to run the dyno.

The BEST method is dyno + datalogging the car in real time. This takes almost all the data the tuner needs for the car being tweaked into consideration and under real time application, hence, tuning should be more accurate. Then there is adaptive learning and the use of wideband tuning that assists in smoothing out the miniscual idiosyncracies left on the table post tune.

IMO, threads like this shed light on a sore that has been under the skin for awhile and can have a POSITIVE outcome if handled correctly by both parties.

TO ME, this IS the best Mustang forum on the net bar none. It's packed with solid info from guys in the business you can trust.

I do not wish ill on anyone or any business but if there is a problem..........expose it and work together on fixing it. Remaining silent can turn a relatively benign problem into a cancer if it remains unchecked.

 

[OneQwkStang]

Threads and forums like this point me in the right direction when it comes to choosing a vendor to give business too.
After reading this thread and many previous threads regarding this vendor, they won't be getting my hard earned cash.

 

[Enitalp]

Another one in the club.

I stopped counting mails to bbr to try to fix their tune, and every time i had to restart from the original and reply to the same stupid statement : but you did received your tune. Yeah except that the car don't start, so it must be your car... so why my car start with the original tune and with the backup tune i asked AM to do because my car was sitting down not working for one month at my speed shop without any tune.

I stopped counting on them. Put that in the column "loss" and went to another vendor.

 

[Greg Hazlett]

LOL...you guys want to know why Dillon Dollar is all over BBR's nuts? Look who did all his "work" after Steve sold him a Vortech that had been over spun to the moon and Dillon is not smart enough to realize BBR fucked him over...

Onto my experience with BBR; when I joined S197 and bought my 2010 I checked around for vendors and saw BBR had a good reputation; I purchased several small items from them and had no issues; I had questions about the directions in the Steeda CMDP's, called them and John took care of everything, walking me through my issue; based on that experience I looked at them when I was buying cams and based on John's recommendation went with the HR cams since he did not know when the BBR stage 1 cams would be back in stock; wanted to purchase the HR's from BBR but found them approx $100 cheaper, called John and asked if they would price match and he said I was getting them cheaper than what they could at their cost so I bought them from another vendor but told John I would use BBR for the tune.

Installed the cams, uploaded the tune and the car would not start; worked with BBR to get it right and they could not get it; I was contacted by another tuner who offered to do the tune for free to get me up and running so I did and tht tune was right on.

Even after that I supported and recommended BBR to people but then noticed threads with people having issues with BBR esp Liz when she answered the phone which I agreed with; when I was working with them on the HR tune she answered the phone and was very rude and short with me, I spoke with John about it and once I found out she was Chris's Mom the light bulb came on that she was there to stay.

Fast forward to recent times and watching their names appear more and more in the magazines makes me think they have gotten too big too fast and success has made them forget what made them good which was a quality product at a reasonable price with good customer service...added to reading some of the bullshit that Steve gets on here and spouts off has pushed a lot of potential customers away from them.

I hope for their sakes they pull it together and right the ship, to those that think this is a BBR bash fest really read the posts and hopefully who can see this is a trend vice a one time hiccup that should make BBR pause and hopefully take a second to realize where their business and reputation is going/has gone....and if they don't they will end up another one of the failed business who lost sight of what people really want which is honest, good customer service.

 

[white05gt]

Your car or anybody elses won't make more boost on the street than it will on my Mustang dyno.

Live and on site,
1) I can have a custom tune done in less than four hours. The customer leaves satisfied.
2) I get to see the persons car to see if it has any issues that might prevent it from being tuned properly.
3) I look over every car that comes in for a tune before we start. I have seen all kinds of problems that would have been otherwise missed if the car was not in my shop.

Email tunes,
1) Constant emails back and forth to get the tune correct takes days or weeks.
2) The tuner has to assume the car he is tuning is in a good state of health.
3) Email tunes need to be data logged by the customer. This can consume a lot of the customers time and the time of the tuner.
4) If the tune never gets resolved due to various reasons. The customer is unhappy and it's going to cost someone some money.


Even though I consider the tuner that works for me to be one of the best that there is, I won't do email tunes unless it's a start up tune to get a customer to my facility.

Sure, I'm giving up revenue by not offering email tunes. However, I can keep my tuner and dyno busy doing dyno tunes. I strongly believe email tunes do not give the customer the quality that they deserve. I see all to many threads on various forums of email tune issues. Most of which are due to communication breakdown between the tuner and the customer. In this case, this tune will cost BBR reputation and money even if they don't issue a credit. Others have noted that will not do business with them anymore. In my shop, I can control the quality of the tune because I get to control the enviroment in which the data was acquired. There are some types of business that's better done face to face.

I decided to try an email tune after speaking with a reputable shop about a tune and feeling comfortable with the process. After 5 revisions and the car still unable to be driven and a fouled set of spark plugs, I have to agree with what you posted. Now I'm out $185 for the tune and about $70 for the plugs and it was a complete waste of my time.

 

[VTXFrank]

I understand that aspect of it iv just been seeing these threads more and more on this forum and eventually their wont be any good vendors left on here because we the consumers ran them off. Everyone is just human their is always two sides to a story im not wanting to get into the actual argument of what happened just stating that, we as a forum community need to stop this shit before it gets out of hand.

Negative Ghostrider. Eventually, the only Vendors left will be the ones who have their shit squared away.

This thread, and the very few others pertaining to different vendors like it, is no different than word of mouth information about a local store/shop/restaurant, you name the place of business, being spread around your local town so that people don't get fucked over.

BBR has had issues in the past, then straightened their shit out. Now it seems like they are letting things slide again. Threads like this will, hopefully, get them back on track and in the good graces of the community once again. If not, then we will all be informed. I've bought some stuff from BBR and was treated very well by Steve and given a great price on their excellent O/R X-Pipe. They just need to tighten up their customer service and tuning programs.

 

[Scuba-Matt]

Negative Ghostrider. Eventually, the only Vendors left will be the ones who have their shit squared away.

This thread, and the very few others pertaining to different vendors like it, is no different than word of mouth information about a local store/shop/restaurant, you name the place of business, being spread around your local town so that people don't get fucked over.

X1000