Watts Link Install Questions

[Sky Render]

I've got a brand-new Fays2 Watts Link sitting in my garage that I haven't had a chance to install yet. I'm planning on bolting it on in a couple weeks. I've got a couple questions first, though.

1. How do you center the rear axle while installing the linkage, and how do you keep it centered?
2. The vehicle suspension must be loaded during the installation, correct?
3. Are there any issues with driving a Watts-link-equipped car as a daily driver and on rough roads? (My car is driven ~10,000 miles a year.)
4. How far from the differential do you install the clamps that go on the axle? (2010s and earlier have axle vent tubes that the Watts link lines up on; the 2011+ has these tubes in a different location.)
5. I've got 3" Magnaflow over-axle pipes. Will the Watts linkage hit these?

Thanks in advnace!

 

[Whiskey11]

I've got a brand-new Fays2 Watts Link sitting in my garage that I haven't had a chance to install yet. I'm planning on bolting it on in a couple weeks. I've got a couple questions first, though.

1. How do you center the rear axle while installing the linkage, and how do you keep it centered?
2. The vehicle suspension must be loaded during the installation, correct?
3. Are there any issues with driving a Watts-link-equipped car as a daily driver and on rough roads? (My car is driven ~10,000 miles a year.)
4. How far from the differential do you install the clamps that go on the axle? (2010s and earlier have axle vent tubes that the Watts link lines up on; the 2011+ has these tubes in a different location.)
5. I've got 3" Magnaflow over-axle pipes. Will the Watts linkage hit these?

Thanks in advnace!

1.) Before you lock down the axle clamps, have a buddy take a tape measure and measure from the inside of the wheel well to one of the tread grooves and then do the same on the other side. It wont matter if the rear axle is in the air or not because there is no suspension arc in the Watts Link geometry so it can be done in the air. If you need to move it over you have to move the axle clamps on both sides of the axle to move it over. DO NOT use horizontal arms to move the axle as that messes with the Watts link geometry.

2.) I did mine in the air or off the car. Most of the bolts on the propeller are impossible to install with it on the car because you can't fit a torque wrench with a socket between the differential and the propeller to tighten it down and you can't fit a combination wrench on the other end to hold it in place. The center pivot bolt is the exception to that, I did it while the frame was on the car. So what I did was assemble the center pivot assembly on the ground. This requires you to have the arms for the watts link at the necessary length and may require some pre-fitting to decide how long they need to be. Jim says the watts propeller should have the top part pointed at about 1-o'clock with the arms in the horizontal position. The limiting factor is going to be the axle vent. There is a lot of adjustment in the axle clamp but it will still limit how far outboard the watts link will go. There will be a lot of test fitting done before bolts get tightened down.

3.) Well, not really no. It will make things more prone to coming apart if you mess up and have to reuse a nylok nut and forget loctite. I noticed that when you tighten the center pivot bolt to 100 lb*ft that it also cracks the powder coating on the frame and if you adjust the height of the center pivot a lot you can get squeaks from that area. As for noise, my Fays2 is 100% silent with the exception of the squeak. I can't even confirm it's the Watts link, I just have a sneaking suspicion it is. Unlike my Rod Ended endlinks (Strano/UMI competition endlinks) which make this dull thudding noises over every little bump, the rod ends on the Fays2 are quiet. Don't forget to install the O-rings!

4.) See 1.)

5.) The frame on the Fays2, at its tallest point, is no higher than the PHB support brace. So if you don't have issues with it hitting now, you shouldn't with the Fays2. That said, when I first installed my Fays2, the driver side axle clamp was rotated too far up and on severe bumps it would hit the exhaust pipe. I rotated it down and out of the way and rotated the axle clamp the correct amount up to keep the arms at equal but opposite angles and all is well again! If you end up doing the install with the suspension still loaded, make sure that when you do the watts link final adjustment of the axle clamps that the front is at the same height and the car sits level because any rake at all will not give you an accurate enough load to get the bars horizontal at ride height.

7.) Prepare to enjoy a brand new car! The difference between the PHB arrangement and the Watts link can be felt when you drive the car, even daily, and is absolutely amazing when the car is pushed to the limits. You may not have this "problem", but I do, and that is being able to literally at the Apex of a corner just mash the gas pedal and the car will plant all the power to the ground and go. I'm not making 412 HP/390 lb*ft of torque stock though either!

8.) What happened to 6.) ??????

Picture of my install:

And video after it's all done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFi9Ck5anf0

 

[Sky Render]

Thanks for the quick response! I notice that the axle clamps on your car are not centered; the driver's side clamp is much closer to the diff than the passenger side one.

I don't think I'm quite following you with centering the axle, though. Are you saying if the axle is to the driver's side by half an inch, you should move both axle clamps towards the passenger side by half an inch?

 

[Whiskey11]

Thanks for the quick response! I notice that the axle clamps on your car are not centered; the driver's side clamp is much closer to the diff than the passenger side one.

I don't think I'm quite following you with centering the axle, though. Are you saying if the axle is to the driver's side by half an inch, you should move both axle clamps towards the passenger side by half an inch?

That picture is a bad picture because I ended up rebuilding the entire unit chasing what ended up being a loose center bolt (didn't get it to torque). I installed it in a hurry the night before a race so it is quite possible they are not perfectly centered. One of them is also offset on the axle clamps so that doesn't help the effect either, what matters is that the arms are equal length with no pre-load on them which is explained in the install booklet.

If the axle is off half an inch to the drive side you will have to scoot the axle clamps half that distance since the difference between the passenger side and driver side was half an inch to center it you would need to move it half that distance I think. I just went with the trial and error part. I got it to within an 1/8th of an inch and called it quits. You can't see it when standing behind the car and any number of things from the axles not being pushed in all the way (C-Clip axles have lateral play in them when up in the air) to the tires not being molded correctly can throw the numbers off so don't spend too much time fussing over every last 1/8th inch.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I doubt that the diff is centered along the axle, so that's not a good reference. Look at the distances between the clamps and the tires instead if that much is visible (photobucket stuff gets kicked out by the office internet filtering here).

You want the two lateral links to be the same length and to be at equal and opposite inclinations for proper Watts link geometry.


Norm

 

[Sky Render]

I doubt that the diff is centered along the axle, so that's not a good reference. Look at the distances between the clamps and the tires instead if that much is visible (photobucket stuff gets kicked out by the office internet filtering here).

You want the two lateral links to be the same length and to be at equal and opposite inclinations for proper Watts link geometry.


Norm

OK, so you're saying I should set the two lateral links to EXACTLY the same length, install them on the propeller, install the propeller and links onto the center section, and then adjust the axle clamps so that the axle is centered?

 

[Whiskey11]

OK, so you're saying I should set the two lateral links to EXACTLY the same length, install them on the propeller, install the propeller and links onto the center section, and then adjust the axle clamps so that the axle is centered?

That's correct. That is how I did it with mine, I just couldn't explain it lol! If it ends up that the axle is still off after you do that just keep trying until you get it centered. You do NOT want to use the links to adjust lateral location, they have to be the same length for the watts link to do it's job without influencing handling. Read through the install booklet that came with it and find the big points he makes about the lengths and taking any preload out of the links and how to keep them horizontal or equal but opposite angles and it should become clearer how the install needs to go.

 

[Philostang]

I seem to recall (w/hazy memory) that I was able to get the prop arms torqued to spec with the unit installed in the car. I think all I did was raise and lower the axle to gain clearance as appropriate. At that point in the install you're just tightening one side of the arms, so you aren't at any critical point of determining lengths of anything.

Best,
-j

 

[Sky Render]

What do you mean by "preload" on the lateral links?

I really appreciate all the help, guys. Anyone in the Maryland/DC/NoVA area that would like to help on the install? I'll provide beer and food!

 

[Whiskey11]

What do you mean by "preload" on the lateral links?

I really appreciate all the help, guys. Anyone in the Maryland/DC/NoVA area that would like to help on the install? I'll provide beer and food!

Like pre-load in a swaybar, if one of the links is longer then the other it will apply a force to the towers. Jim has an excellent explanation in the booklet about how to get rid of that preload. It involves loosening the jam nuts on one of the bars after everything is assembled and rotating it until it rotates easily in hand. There is a point where it takes very little to no pressure to rotate the hex bar on the threads of the rod ends and that is where it needs to be to remove any preload. It's on page 10 of the booklet in the red letters.

 

[JAJ]

I'm a little late to the party here, but I have had mine in and out a few times now, so I can provide a "veteran's" perspective on it.

When I first installed mine, I had a couple of problems. First the factory swaybar interferes with the bottom of the frame at full droop. Jim and Sam Strano both said "ignore it - install the link with the suspension loaded and it will hit when you have it on a lift but it won't hit while you're driving". They were right, but I eventually ordered the Shelby frame from Jim. It's shorter and clears just fine at full droop. Sam's rear bar clears the standard frame fine if you're installing one of those.

The second problem was that the driver's side arm hit the exhaust pipe. I followed the instructions exactly but I had the arm set too high. To fix this, with the suspension loaded, measure the distance from the top of the bump stop to the frame, and then make sure you have that distance plus about 1/4" between the top of the arm and the exhaust pipe over the axle.

As Norm said, the differential housing is not centered on the axle.

I had a squeaky groan from mine until I pulled it apart about a month ago and greased the rod ends. Quiet again.

The first time I installed mine I put a small scissors jack between the fender well and a brake disk and moved the axle about 1/8" over from where it naturally hung. The second time I did it, I didn't bother, so mine's not perfect. It has no effect on handling, and it doesn't preload the control arm bushings.

The most useful tool ever for setting the angles of the arms is an iPhone running the "Clinometer" app. You can easily get the arms within 0.1 degree of each other.

 

[Sky Render]

I really appreciate all the input. One last question: Is this something that I can reasonably do in an afternoon in my garage using jackstands and/or ramps, or should I try to find a 4-post lift somewhere?

 

[Powered by Ford]

I really appreciate all the input. One last question: Is this something that I can reasonably do in an afternoon in my garage using jackstands and/or ramps, or should I try to find a 4-post lift somewhere?

I don't have a fays2 (for a few reasons but not to derail), but I have a cortex watts link and it took me a few hours on jack stands. The worst part is lowering the car onto the stands and making sure not to bend the pinch welds.

But it's all pretty simple bolt on stuff. Take your time with measurements and angles.

 

[Whiskey11]

I really appreciate all the input. One last question: Is this something that I can reasonably do in an afternoon in my garage using jackstands and/or ramps, or should I try to find a 4-post lift somewhere?

I installed mine after work the night before an autocross event. I got home from work at about 6:15 and finished buttoning things up by about 10:30 IIRC. I followed the instructions and found that the method he explains makes sense if you have a lift, the method I used when I rebuilt the unit took much less time with the car on jack stands.

I need to tear mine down again and investigate the cause of the squeaking noise in the center of the car. I just took the entire thing apart less than a month ago to address a different noise that turned out to be shocks but I greased up the watts link in the process and I must have missed something that should have been greased.

 

[Sky Render]

I installed mine after work the night before an autocross event. I got home from work at about 6:15 and finished buttoning things up by about 10:30 IIRC. I followed the instructions and found that the method he explains makes sense if you have a lift, the method I used when I rebuilt the unit took much less time with the car on jack stands.

I need to tear mine down again and investigate the cause of the squeaking noise in the center of the car. I just took the entire thing apart less than a month ago to address a different noise that turned out to be shocks but I greased up the watts link in the process and I must have missed something that should have been greased.

What parts did you grease?

 

[Whiskey11]

What parts did you grease?

The center pivot bushing where it contacts the watts frame. The next time it comes apart the entire center bolt is getting some grease if it will keep it quiet. I have a history of fiddling with things too much so I usually end up taking stuff apart which causes squeeks to form. It was quiet when I first installed everything, I just keep tinkering with it which is why it has started making noises.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I just started to install mine and my sway bar comes in contact with the watts frame...anyone have this issue?

 

[danbev07]

Is that at full droop? I just installed mine yesterday but didn't need to let the rear-end hang so I didn't notice any issues with contact.

What a nice difference it makes too!!!

 

[AutoXRacer]

Here is the short version of the Watts Frame...this is the one I am getting, but obviously not Shelby blue... lol
I got this picture from the Shelby website. But its the same since Fays is who makes it for Shelby.

The shorter style frame only has 3 adjustment holes instead of the 6 or so on the regular frame. Seeing how Shelby only offers the short style, maybe there is a reason for it.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Is that at full droop? I just installed mine yesterday but didn't need to let the rear-end hang so I didn't notice any issues with contact.

What a nice difference it makes too!!!

Mine is hanging that low due to I have no springs or shocks installed; replacing those at the same time. But I can't lift the rear-end at ride height since the rear sway bar contacts the watts frame dead on.

My rear sway bar is a ROUSH Stage 3 bar and bents towards the watts frame exactly underneath inline with the frame.