Coyote Catastrophic Failure

[keoni1984]

Damn, that REALLY sucks, but the new build is looking great! Maybe there should be a list of preferred tuners since this seems to happen quite a bit.. I have yet to hear of any catastrophic failures with Lito's tunes..

 

[jayman33]

I'm with Mystickeith on Lund, I make over 600 to the wheels and have had zero problems thus far....(knock on wood).

 

[superslow86]

^ I agree on the tune being the key to success. I remember reading a thread about how quick people have jumped on board and started tuning these coyotes.....Seems like a lot of these "tuners" simply dont really know what they are doing or dont care enough to do it right.

 

[superslow86]

Damn, that REALLY sucks, but the new build is looking great! Maybe there should be a list of preferred tuners since this seems to happen quite a bit.. I have yet to hear of any catastrophic failures with Lito's tunes..

Good idea IMO. Could get out of hand quickly though.

 

[1950StangJump$]

There have been so many arguments on whether these motors can be safely tuned or blown. Bottom line, they can be, but the lack of really strong internal parts means the margin for error is very small with the tune.

I was reading an article on an upcoming Viper model. The engineers chose to forge the internals, citing customer demand to be able supercharge the cars. Paraphrasing, the article noted that using the strengthened parts gave tuners a wider margin of error and protected them from themselves. Made me think of the Coyote.

A list of good tuners is a great idea. Even listing the "strikes" on each would be beneficial so that owners can come to their own conclusions. For instance, Lund is a well regarded tuner, but he has had some blown motors, so it would be good to get an overall feel for just how much is anecdotal and how much is real. A poster could note they have a tune by XXX, with the option of reporting back if there is an issue or reporting back after so many miles for an "all's good" update.

 

[blackgt87]

Glad you're getting it closer. It's been nice having mine done with the Boss shortblock and upgrades like you're doing. At least I'm less nervous running it hard. Also once again recommend Lund Racing to insure this doesn't happen again. I did remote tuning and the process is much safer than what it sounds like happened to both of us. It was a costly lesson putting trust in someone else that should've been able to do it right the first time.

Exactly. At this point I feel like a dumbass for not going to Lund in the first place. I was originally thinking about having this local tuner just shut the rear o2's off and fix the idle. Then after I realized I needed to swap gears and I decided to have him do those, then it kinda escalated into a dyno tune because he said he had some really good tricks with cam timing to make more power without more ignition timing or even changing AF ratio. Plus Tony's car runs so good, and the other local people who love him. I won't make that mistake again.

Fucking instagram...

Lol come follow me bro <3

Who do you plan on tuning it when its back up and running?

Lund Racing.

I guess we know who is NOT going to tune it...

LOL dingdingding

Next time:
1) Make det-can
2) Use det-can
3) Profit

WTF does this mean?

All I can say is I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this! It's a big glass of suck when you have to pay someone else's stupid tax.


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk.

Thanks dude.

At least you got some really sick pictures out of the deal.

There will be plenty more to come.

You are definitely moving fast. Glad to see you are taking care of it the right way. Keep up the good work. I can understand Money Pit theme. My dad and I have been throwing that term around for years between project cars.

I just can't pay every month for a new car thats broken, its still not even a year old. I haven't taken a day off work since it broke. 10's plus Saturday's and Sunday's. It sucks but it's obvious I can't count on the tooner or anyone else to make this right. So rather that sit and cry about it I go to work.

Man sorry to hear...I don't care what anyone says, you don't get damage like that from anything but a fucked up tune or a hand grenade. Christ I have seen a few coyotes that blew on boost around 15-17 and they looked no where near that crazy. Not trying to be a fan boy but I had Lund tune mine on the dyno, n have never had an issue with the blower make about 600 to the wheels for almost two years. These fucking things r too expensive to trust just anyone to tune them. At least I know if mine blows now, it is due to some mechanical failure n not the tune. Subbed for more pics.

Agree 100%. More pics on the way.

So since this is a learning thread and I have a 2.8LC in my future, who is a good tuner for KB? Especially since from the OP the canned KB tune caused CEL and other problems.

Remember the canned KB tune is for an otherwise 100% stock car, my car had no cats thats why I got the CEL. I don't agree with running stock cats with a blower so that's my choice. The only actual problem with the KB tune was idle which they revised once, it just still wasnt right. The hassle with that tune is that it is not SCT, its Hyperflash. So I had to mail the programmer from Ohio to California for any adjustments.

Just remember Kenne Bell is the SHIT! Seriously best company ever. Their canned tune was faster than this clowns dyno tune and I have proof.

I'm with Mystickeith on Lund, I make over 600 to the wheels and have had zero problems thus far....(knock on wood).

As soon as I get my shit together I will be with you guys.

 

[Riptide]

My kb canned tune has been good minus very occasional cold start problems. I have an sct btw and they still force you to mail the device in for a new tune. They have a lame no email policy.


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[DTony]

There must be more involved in tuning a PD SC versus a centri. My car drives perfect. I dont have any of the problems the OP has described. No surging, AF's very conservative, timing is conservative (locked at 16º). The car has 66 passes with the SC so far and 2500 miles. I do run Torco when racing though, maybe that helps.
This whole thing has me scratching my head because my car has been very good since day one.

 

[Full_Tilt]

WTF does this mean?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=detcan

No detonation, no blown engine.
Dont just have faith in some tuner. Its your car, if you want it to stay together you should be paying attention to detonation just like you would pay attention to oil pressure or coolant temp.

You dont know that tune is okay until you beat on the car under real conditions while monitoring knock.
20 bucks says you are another victim of inertia dyno "tuning".

 

[Quickshift302]

I dont have any of the problems the OP has described. No surging, AF's very conservative, timing is conservative (locked at 16º). The car has 66 passes with the SC so far and 2500 miles. I do run Torco when racing though, maybe that helps.
This whole thing has me scratching my head because my car has been very good since day one.

Ive suffered from a similar fate as the OP with my Whipple supercharged 2011. But I dont believe its my tuners fault. Every car is different and every circumstance is different. Every coyote owner needs take notice that sometimes s*** happens at 7500rpm when your making a mind boggling 600hp.

Tuning takes a certain type of person and thats why we trust these few people with our loved mustangs. Im sure this guy has tuned a few other blown 5.0's and will continue to tune a few more. With that being said MOST mechanics and tuners are hotrodders themselves and dont go out of their way to f*** fellow hotrodders over.

Trust me I can understand the OP's frustration but he has done an excellent job not bashing the tuner too badly. Because these tuners are a tight knit group of guys that commonly share tunes and look to eachother for advice. So I can tell you exactly what is going to happen. When the OP gets things back together he'll call up Lund to schedule and tell him about "the retard" at CRT that blew his s*** up. Lund will call CRT asking about said situation. CRT will send Lund old tune. Lund will overview tune and then decline the OP's business because it's likely similar to what he would have done in the first place. And as Cidsamuth said earlier, Lund is a well rounded tuner, but has still had a few motors let loose under this tune.

I know its sour advice. But buy a shelf and call it the "Wall of Shame" and decorate it with your ravaged parts. It'll make you feel better in the long run. Ill post up some of my coyote carnage later this evening .

Dan

 

[KungFuHamster]

I was reading an article on an upcoming Viper model. The engineers chose to forge the internals, citing customer demand to be able supercharge the cars. Paraphrasing, the article noted that using the strengthened parts gave tuners a wider margin of error and protected them from themselves. Made me think of the Coyote.

While for overall power production/durability this is a good idea, i would go the other way if a tuner told me he can "protect himself with a wider margin of error" just because i have a forged bottom end. yes, the forged motor will hold up better, but detonation can still destroy one...and you cant always hear detetonation...and if you do that could be when you hammer a piston. Id rather have a tuner who tunes safely regardless of my rotation assy.

 

[blackgt87]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=detcan

No detonation, no blown engine.
Dont just have faith in some tuner. Its your car, if you want it to stay together you should be paying attention to detonation just like you would pay attention to oil pressure or coolant temp.

You dont know that tune is okay until you beat on the car under real conditions while monitoring knock.
20 bucks says you are another victim of inertia dyno "tuning".

You are correct, detonation will break any motor. My car was tuned on a Mustang Dyno, but I know real world street pulls are the best way to load the car. I was data logging when it popped, but I did not data log much before that. Sounds like a good idea, does an interceptor gauge display knock?

 

[blackgt87]

Ive suffered from a similar fate as the OP with my Whipple supercharged 2011. But I dont believe its my tuners fault. Every car is different and every circumstance is different. Every coyote owner needs take notice that sometimes s*** happens at 7500rpm when your making a mind boggling 600hp.

Tuning takes a certain type of person and thats why we trust these few people with our loved mustangs. Im sure this guy has tuned a few other blown 5.0's and will continue to tune a few more. With that being said MOST mechanics and tuners are hotrodders themselves and dont go out of their way to f*** fellow hotrodders over.

Trust me I can understand the OP's frustration but he has done an excellent job not bashing the tuner too badly. Because these tuners are a tight knit group of guys that commonly share tunes and look to eachother for advice. So I can tell you exactly what is going to happen. When the OP gets things back together he'll call up Lund to schedule and tell him about "the retard" at CRT that blew his s*** up. Lund will call CRT asking about said situation. CRT will send Lund old tune. Lund will overview tune and then decline the OP's business because it's likely similar to what he would have done in the first place. And as Cidsamuth said earlier, Lund is a well rounded tuner, but has still had a few motors let loose under this tune.

I know its sour advice. But buy a shelf and call it the "Wall of Shame" and decorate it with your ravaged parts. It'll make you feel better in the long run. Ill post up some of my coyote carnage later this evening .

Dan

Thanks for the comment about me not just straight bashing him, because I feel as though I have not.

I agree to an extent that shit can happen at 7500 rpm making big power, which is why I didn't expect him to pay for everything. Not even half. But I thought he should take some responsibility given the level of damange and apparent signs of detonation.

I think it's quite a stretch to assume Lund will ask for CRT's tune, especially considering he wrote most of Kenne Bell's canned tune for them. I never called Jeff a retard, I even said he has done good work for lots of people, some of them I know personally. But he did not do good work for me, that's a simple fact. Blown up motor or not my tune still sucked balls. Also I won't have the same setup as before so even if Lund would have done the same thing (which I'll bet anything he won't) it wouldn't apply to my car anyway.

I've already got solid plans to make a coffee table out of this bitch and have the glass etched with my Money Pit Racing logo.

 

[kon5t]

Ok so here is a question born out of my ignorance. Modern engines have knock detectors, do tuners ignore these when they tune for more power, surely a competent tuner would not disable the timing retardation when knocking/detonation is detected?

 

[blackgt87]

Ok so here is a question born out of my ignorance. Modern engines have knock detectors, do tuners ignore these when they tune for more power, surely a competent tuner would not disable the timing retardation when knocking/detonation is detected?

I would hope not. I can't see that part of the tune, I can just data log to see the number of degrees of timing the knock sensors are pulling. But if they have been disabled or their sensitivity limited I wouldn't know. I know in our discussions I made sure to tell him I wanted the knock sensors to still work with full sensitivity.

 

[kon5t]

I would hope not. I can't see that part of the tune, I can just data log to see the number of degrees of timing the knock sensors are pulling. But if they have been disabled or their sensitivity limited I wouldn't know. I know in our discussions I made sure to tell him I wanted the knock sensors to still work with full sensitivity.

does the data logger pick up pinging?

 

[blackgt87]

does the data logger pick up pinging?

The way I understand it is that the data log only shows you the number of degrees of timing pulled by the knock sensors, no the actual knock (not that I know what the units of knock are lol).

What I'm saying is that it only shows you ping or knock if its pulling timing for it. I'm pretty sure if you shut the knock sensors off, your engine could be knocking like crazy and your data log would show nothing.

Obviously I'm not a pro tuner (or I wouldn't be where I am) so maybe someone who knows better can chime in.

 

[Bodam]

does the data logger pick up pinging?

If you set it up to look for it, yes

 

[kon5t]

ok thanks, sorry to ask n00b questions guys

I bought some software a year or so ago which goes into incredible details when plugged into the ford ECU, but i havent tried it on my 2012 yet, ill do that this weekend and let you know if i can find a "knock" parameter

 

[Quickshift302]

Thanks for the comment about me not just straight bashing him, because I feel as though I have not.

I agree to an extent that shit can happen at 7500 rpm making big power, which is why I didn't expect him to pay for everything. Not even half. But I thought he should take some responsibility given the level of damange and apparent signs of detonation.

I think it's quite a stretch to assume Lund will ask for CRT's tune, especially considering he wrote most of Kenne Bell's canned tune for them. I never called Jeff a retard, I even said he has done good work for lots of people, some of them I know personally. But he did not do good work for me, that's a simple fact. Blown up motor or not my tune still sucked balls. Also I won't have the same setup as before so even if Lund would have done the same thing (which I'll bet anything he won't) it wouldn't apply to my car anyway.

I've already got solid plans to make a coffee table out of this bitch and have the glass etched with my Money Pit Racing logo.

Yeah sorry, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. Im just saying alot of these guys work together. Advice may come from Jeff to Lund or Lund to Jeff.

alot goes into building engines and alot goes into blowing them up. A humid hot day, bad gas, a missed shift, or just a little too much time on the rev limiter coming out of the hole.

I like the coffee table idea!