Watts link or struts/springs??

sheizasosay

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The reason I would heavily suggest the Cortex over the whiteline is because the whiteline lacks the adjustability of the cortex.

The Whiteline watts link is adjustable.

I would have to agree the Whiteline does lack the adjustability of the cortex....pretty evident.

American Muscle had the only pic of the diff cover showing the adjustment holes. I couldn't get the pic off the site to show here. You can see the Whiteline has only 1 extra set of holes to adjust to.
 

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Sky Render

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I would have to agree the Whiteline does lack the adjustability of the cortex....pretty evident.

The Whiteline unit has two different settings for roll centers. Saying it is not adjustable at all is false.

And how many different roll center settings do you really need?
 

Roadracer350

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Only one. The RIGHT one. Rear roll center is a powerful tuning tool...


This is true but White Line is used by a LOT of Australian Supercar guys and they must be doing somthing right. I look back on a satalite bike ride I did at TWS one year. I was givin a bike with ADJ everything! Rake, Trail, Headstock, Swingarm Piviot, Engine height etc. We chased our tail trying to set that bike up for 4 days. When we got it right it was great but your always chasing the elusive 1/10th. From what I have been told the guys at Whiteline took all the info from their racers and put the 2 best positions for the customers. As a matter of fact I went faster on my old 99 R7 than I did on the 09 Superbike we received from Graves just because their was way to much adjustment. Adjustments are good but to a point. Its like data logging. It can get overwhelming at times. :thumb2:
 

TGR96

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The reason I would heavily suggest the Cortex over the whiteline is because the whiteline lacks the adjustability of the cortex.

The Whiteline watts link is adjustable.

I would have to agree the Whiteline does lack the adjustability of the cortex....pretty evident.

The Whiteline unit has two different settings for roll centers. Saying it is not adjustable at all is false.

I don't think that powered by ford was saying that the Whiteline is not adjustable at all. I think he just meant that the Cortex has more adjustability than the Whiteline.
 

sheizasosay

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I don't think that powered by ford was saying that the Whiteline is not adjustable at all. I think he just meant that the Cortex has more adjustability than the Whiteline.

That's exactly the way I read it.
 

Roadracer350

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Griggs and Cortex both have more adj but their are a lot of parts especially with the Griggs. Like I said before adjustable can be good but it can also be bad. The thing that turned me on about Whiteline is ease of adjustable, Easy install and not a ton of parts. I researched them quite a bit and talked to some guys running Fays and others and the biggest thing that appealed to me was the Whiteline is compact, user friendly and quiet.
 

gomb3

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Right now there are only two tracks around me, they are 3 and 5 hrs away so not too much road tracking will go on. I'll be moving in a year and there are tracks all over so I'll be on 'em prolly every other weekend. My end goal is (fantasy probably) make it handle like/better than a BMW. Don't care to drive fast in straight line but want to carve it up with the best of them, which I know rely's heavily on driving ability. Want a well balanced 'stang that is responsive to slight wheel turn and isn't always trying to throw the rear end out from behind me. too much to ask??
 

Sky Render

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I had a Fays2 at one point. I even started installing it. I never finished the installation. It is an absolute kludge of a system with worthless installation instructions. There is no exact method to install it; rather you have to make a "guess" at how things are to be aligned and keep screwing around with it via trial and error. Furthermore, it is ludicrously heavy and LOUD due to its use of rod ends.

I sold it and currently run a panhard rod.
 

Powered by Ford

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I don't think that powered by ford was saying that the Whiteline is not adjustable at all. I think he just meant that the Cortex has more adjustability than the Whiteline.

That's exactly the way I read it.

Whew glad people understood that. Yes the whiteline is adjustable, but does not have the adjustability of the cortex.

Griggs and Cortex both have more adj but their are a lot of parts especially with the Griggs. Like I said before adjustable can be good but it can also be bad. The thing that turned me on about Whiteline is ease of adjustable, Easy install and not a ton of parts. I researched them quite a bit and talked to some guys running Fays and others and the biggest thing that appealed to me was the Whiteline is compact, user friendly and quiet.

I disagree, why for instance 4 adjustable roll center locations bad compared to 2. I do not understand this argument. I agree all you need is one roll center once you have tuned for it (and your driving style).

I have the street Cortex watts link which has the poly on the body/chassis side and I hear no difference in NVH. I plan on changing the body side to rod ends to see if that makes any noise difference. From two of my friends gmitch and 908ssp they are running rod ends on both sides and I can't hear any difference in noise over OEM. Rod end noise can mean one of two things: worn out (cheap) or incorrect offset.

What about the Griggs watts compared with the Whiteline or Cortex?

Another very good one, but it definitely falls out of the OPs price range.

Right now there are only two tracks around me, they are 3 and 5 hrs away so not too much road tracking will go on. I'll be moving in a year and there are tracks all over so I'll be on 'em prolly every other weekend. My end goal is (fantasy probably) make it handle like/better than a BMW. Don't care to drive fast in straight line but want to carve it up with the best of them, which I know rely's heavily on driving ability. Want a well balanced 'stang that is responsive to slight wheel turn and isn't always trying to throw the rear end out from behind me. too much to ask??

All it takes is money. If I were you I would approach this with double or your current budget (take time and save up the coin) and go right to the "big boy" toys. I wish I would have. I would have been much happier and wouldn't have wasted time messing around with other setups. But in the end I am glad that I did because I learned from it. OP I do not know your desires, but with handling like or better than a BMW is very user dependent...

I had a Fays2 at one point. I even started installing it. I never finished the installation. It is an absolute kludge of a system with worthless installation instructions. There is no exact method to install it; rather you have to make a "guess" at how things are to be aligned and keep screwing around with it via trial and error. Furthermore, it is ludicrously heavy and LOUD due to its use of rod ends.

I sold it and currently run a panhard rod.

I have never liked the jungle gym design that fays2 and steeda use for their watts link. I understand its for bolt simplicity, but for the price you are losing performance and gaining weight with unnecessary bracketry.

Also I have a big gripe with axle clamps. Maybe that works great in a parking lot dance, but I would not trust them on a road course/HDPE. Before I get flamed about PROOF in regards to the fays2 or steeda, but they are prone to backing out in other applications. Its simply my opinion and judgement.
 
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Roadracer350

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I understand you want to tune the roll center in and may want that adjustability but for most of the street driving and canyon carving guys they will never use it. When I looked at whiteline they were adjustable enough for me and the price was good. I have learned with more adjustable and more parts then you are going to have more problems and more of a chance for crap to come loose. That's why on bikes we safety wire EVERYTHING! I didn't know Cortex had the poly bushings I have only seen the rod ends but I still stand by the Whiteline decision I made. If it works for all the Australian V8 Super car guys then its good for me. Again this is just my opinion and I am starting out in the cars coming from years on Super bikes. Whiteline must be doing somthing right for the Vorshlag guys to be flying like they are and their using the Whiteline Watts and im going to be on pretty much the same tracks as they are.
 
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19COBRA93

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I'm in the market for a watts as well, and I really like certain things about each of them. But I'll be running a Griggs torque arm, which I'm unsure if it will work with the Whiteline or Cortex diff cover. So I may go with the "quiet" griggs watts link just so I don't have any problems with the torque arm fitment.
 

Roadracer350

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The only deal I am wondering about on the Torque Arm is in the description it states "Reduce drive line articulation". Are they stating the twisting motion of the rear end as torque is supplied or are they talking the actual movement of the suspension?
 

19COBRA93

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The only deal I am wondering about on the Torque Arm is in the description it states "Reduce drive line articulation". Are they stating the twisting motion of the rear end as torque is supplied or are they talking the actual movement of the suspension?

It must be referring to the rotation of the axle housing under braking and acceleration. I don't see how it could inhibit any other movement of the suspension.
 

B2B

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This is exactly what I learned from my full GR-40 Fox 3. All the adjustments are outstanding but it also take a VERY well tuned butt-dyno and A LOT of track time to dial in the car. For a DD/HPDE car, I'm very happy with the tuning from shocks and sway bars. I might try the Watts Link later, but my 2011 GT is close enough for me to enjoy on the track without spending 3/4 of my track time under the car making adjustments.


Griggs and Cortex both have more adj but their are a lot of parts especially with the Griggs. Like I said before adjustable can be good but it can also be bad.
 

Whiskey11

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I had a Fays2 at one point. I even started installing it. I never finished the installation. It is an absolute kludge of a system with worthless installation instructions. There is no exact method to install it; rather you have to make a "guess" at how things are to be aligned and keep screwing around with it via trial and error. Furthermore, it is ludicrously heavy and LOUD due to its use of rod ends.

I sold it and currently run a panhard rod.

You know it's funny, the Fays2 weighs exactly the same as the Whiteline Watts link, 29lbs, but the difference is that the 29lbs in the Fays2 is mostly sprung weight vs mostly unsprung weight on the Whiteline.

I've had my Fays2 on for 8000 miles and 8 months on the surfaces pretending to be roads in Nebraska. No additional noise. There are plenty of ways to install it exactly. It's called an angle finder. How do you know what exactly it sounds like if you never installed yours? Mine is DEAD silent, no rod end noise and YES I do know what rod end noise is, I had the Strano/UMI Competition Endlinks which have some pretty lack luster QA1 Chinese rod ends on them and mine are looser than a whore in the red light district.

I would also like Powered by Ford to explain how 1.4 lateral G in autocross is different than 1.4 lateral G on a road course? This is the same argument Sam is most likely to state when he gets here. The truth is, there is NO difference between the two and Sam has more than enough on track experience to state otherwise.

I'll keep my kludge of a system as it flat out works and works damn well.
 

908ssp

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Big difference in trust if one is at 30mph and one is at 100mph.
 

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