Upgrading the stock fuel line on a returnless setup

[TexasBlownV8]

Great info regarding the points of restriction!

thats exactly how i did mine. i used the 644003 and i think i used a 45 degree fitting as well. then from there went straight to the fuel rail with #8 fittings. no adaptors other than the 644003.

Same setup I'm using as well, -8 hose from the hardline connector, to a 180* at front of fuel rail.

Using GT500 pumps with dual BAP, and CPR fuel rails. Plenty of fuel delivery.

 

[tmcolegr]

I'll try not to completely derail Jeremy's thread...

Based on my measly 550 RWHP, I chose to upgrade only the flexible fuel hose starting at the OEM hard line behind the driver's side strut tower, leaving the OEM fuel filter, hard line from the tank, and GT 500 fuel pumps. I replaced the OEM flexible hose with an AN8 hose to supply fuel to the Fore Innovations fuel rails.

For those of you not familiar with the location of this hose, the OEM flexible fuel hose uses a push on fitting which snaps onto the OEM 3/8" hard line quick disconnect. This fitting is located down on the frame behind the driver's side strut tower and below the brake master cylinder. I removed the LF tire and rear splash shield to make installation easier and to take some photos. After disconnecting the OEM flexible hose, the replacement AN8 hose pushes onto the OEM hard line and is secured with a screw in retainer. The screw in retainer design, although much more of a PITA to install, is much more reliable than the fitting with the snap on retainer, as it can not accidentally come off the OEM hard line. As far as I know only Russell and Fragola make this fitting to connect to an AN8 fitting. The other end of the hose is connected directly to the fuel rails. If you still have the OEM fuel rails, Russell, Fragola, Aeroquip and Earls make an AN8 fitting which will connect directly to the OEM fuel rails.

Here's a few pictures of the installation

If you would like to see Fore Innovations fuel rails on a Saleen S/C'd application, see this thread

 

[Chino]

Thanks so much for the pictures! I have a much better understanding of what I'm getting into

 

[JeremyH]

Looks good Todd!

 

[Bobby]

Looks good

 

[JeremyH]

PPRV delete kits are available now.

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1552155#post1552155

If you want to make your own delete setup just shoot me a pm and I can email you my directions to help you do it.

 

[Turbostangs90]

Subscribed...doing this asap.

On a side note, after replacing the few restrictions on the stock design...where should one draw the line on the stock fuel rails?

 

[JeremyH]

Regardless of the setup the rails would help, its part of the puzzle as well. You can always push the stock line and rails further with more pump and injectors etc, but the larger volume and higher flowing rails will make it easier for the injectors to get the fuel they need, especialy the injectors on the other side farthest away from the feed etc. I would say when going north of that same number around 600rwhp is where it really starts to show and if you havent upgraded rails yet it would be a good time to consider it. Whats great about these mods is its all steps towards a return system so if you ever reach the ceiling of your retunless setup, these line, filter and rail mods are all stuff you would need anyway.

 

[JoshK]

Maybe put together a package deal for the supply lines, filter and rails along with the pprv delete?

 

[JeremyH]

Maybe put together a package deal for the supply lines, filter and rails along with the pprv delete?

All ya got to do is ask and let me know what ya want.

 

[06underme]

The only reason i am looking at this kit is to do away with the factory fuel filter, I broke the clip that you pull to replace it and ford says its not servicable so I have to buy the whole fuel line......My question is this.....After installing this system does it require a custom tune?

 

[JeremyH]

The only reason i am looking at this kit is to do away with the factory fuel filter, I broke the clip that you pull to replace it and ford says its not servicable so I have to buy the whole fuel line......My question is this.....After installing this system does it require a custom tune?

It does not require any tune adjustments. It just make it easier for the pump(s) to get fuel to the rails/injectors so duty cycle and amp pull will drop some.

 

[BruceH]

Yeah if you guys want a quote on lines and fittings for your setup just let me know. You would just have to source a few clamps or an efi fitting. Here is the link to the russell connector to run a 6an line to the rail, they also make one for an 8 an line as well. I would personaly run an 8an line if your gonna upgrade, upgrade lol

http://www.amazon.com/Russell-640903-Specialty-Adapter-Fitting/dp/B002Q3EPZK


Here you can see this fitting on a 6an line

Bumping this one up. I'm considering changing the rigid line from the wheel well to the rails and see how much improvement there is.

A question for those who did that upgrade, did you notice a drop in fuel pump duty cycle?

I'm also considering replacing the whole line or doing a return setup. What's nice is I don't have to do it, but anything that puts less stress on the pumps would be good. I recently hit .859 in duty cycle and have done about all I can to help the gt500 pumps with a 40 amp bap, 8 gauge power wire, and 95lb injectors.

If replacing that section of line reduced duty cycle even 5% it would be all I feel I need.

 

[AutoXRacer]

What % should we aim for with FPDC?

Bruce, would you consider the PPRV delete kit?
I also would like to know what the reduction in FPDC would be with upgrading the line and fuel filter...basically from the fuel pump to the fuel rails. Or which ever section will yield better results.

Regardless of the setup the rails would help, its part of the puzzle as well. You can always push the stock line and rails further with more pump and injectors etc, but the larger volume and higher flowing rails will make it easier for the injectors to get the fuel they need, especialy the injectors on the other side farthest away from the feed etc. I would say when going north of that same number around 600rwhp is where it really starts to show and if you havent upgraded rails yet it would be a good time to consider it. Whats great about these mods is its all steps towards a return system so if you ever reach the ceiling of your retunless setup, these line, filter and rail mods are all stuff you would need anyway.

Is there a quantifiable figure yield when upgrading fuel rails? What would be the benefits from going from ROUSH fuel rails to lets say Fore?

 

[BruceH]

What % should we aim for with FPDC?

Bruce, would you consider the PPRV delete kit?
I also would like to know what the reduction in FPDC would be with upgrading the line and fuel filter...basically from the fuel pump to the fuel rails. Or which ever section will yield better results.

I'd like to start with the easiest stuff. Replacing that line would be super easy. I absolutely hate pulling the pumps so the pprv would wait.

 

[crownaviation]

I'd like to start with the easiest stuff. Replacing that line would be super easy. I absolutely hate pulling the pumps so the pprv would wait.

The dual pumps are as much fun to pull as your teeth. You will want to pull your hair out at the same time. Kinda look like this guy---->>> <<<----I bet he just got done lol.

 

[JeremyH]

Bruce, another thing you can do is run 10 gauge power and ground wires from the fuel hat connector to each fpdm, on the gt setup with single fpdm we did before and after testing on this and it dropped around 5% duty cycle across the board.

I dont have direct results for doing just the line from the wheel well up to the rail but the stock rail efi fitting is indeed the biggest restriction the inside diamter of that fitting is around 4mm.

 

[555]

I wouldn't mind doing this upgrade either. I hate restrictions.
Jeremy are you offering a kit for this?

 

[JeremyH]

I wouldn't mind doing this upgrade either. I hate restrictions.
Jeremy are you offering a kit for this?

I sell a pprv delete kit in my section and I can put together any kind of line, filter, fitting, setup that you want, just let me know what ya need/want.

 

[555]

I don't remember, is that PPRV kit on the 405 pump set up I got from you?