Considering building for SCCA Solo FS class

cbass

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For reference, car is a base 13 gt.
How foolish is this idea? I'm unclear how wide my wheels can be (stock is 8" wide, right? any optional wheels that would allow me some more wheel?)

Throw on a set of good shocks, sticky tires, and run the stock index in our local pro class? Also considering playing in road tire. I always felt I learned more running street tires than I would have if I ran race rubber. Maybe try to learn to drive this car before I throw dumb amounts of grip under it?

Any tips from guys who wish they had done it different? Worst case, I leave it stock for a while and I can still mod it then...
 

JesseW.

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well, the boss is allowed in the class this year, so with better spring rates and wider wheels you're already going to be at a disadvantage. the Shelby GT is still running well in the class with high spring rates that came on it, lighter weight, and 100hp less than the new 5.0's. i think i'd have to start with a boss for the class if i were to do it. also it has yet to be seen how the M3's that have been moved into the class will do. and we have a local crossfire srt-6 that is very strong in FS pax. the scca just moved it over also.
 

sholzer

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If I were you, I'd stay on street tires and run a street tire until you get the hang of it (Race tires tend to hide mistakes and inhibit learning). Whether that be in Road tire class, or in a street tire class (STX) is up to you. I personally plan on running my car in STX until I have a lot more seat time, then I plan on graduating to ESP. It's a ton of fun still throwing these cars around on 265mm tires and that's really what it is all about.
 
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stepqhen

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First, the Boss 302 is AS not FS.
Second, Sam put his 2011 on the top of the podium at Nationals in FS in 2010, so it can be competitive. I ran mine in FS for a year, it was competitive and I was never beat by a car, only by better drivers.
Lastly, since you have the 18x8s I am going to assume that the package you bought didn't have 19x8.5 as an option so you would be stuck with that wheel size. You can force a wider Hoosier on them, your tire guy will curse your name, but I am sure you could get a 275 and possibly a 295 mashed on them. I ran 295s on 19x8.5s and they worked well.
 

Vorshlag-Fair

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You'd want to upgrade your 18" wheel equipped car to the Brembo brake package, which comes with 19x9" wheels instead of the 18x8" wheels the base GT has. You can't just use the 19x9" wheel size without upgrading to the 2013 package that came with those wheels - and you have to upgrade everything. There are different spring rates, too. The extra inch of wheel width is critical.


Click on the thumbnails above to see the base GT springs (left) and the Brembo equipped GT's springs (right)

There are a few unusual modification rules in "Stock" that you would want to exploit, to be competitive:

  • Double adjustable shocks. You can spend insane amounts of money on custom monotube doubles in Stock. I've seen $10K shocks on Stock class cars. It is nuts. The shock rules are weirdly written, so be careful and order from a reputable shock dealer. Personally I think spending over $2K on shocks in Stock class is nuts.
  • Maximize tire width on the stock sized wheel. I've seen the Shelby GT guys smashing 285/30/18s on those itty bitty 18x8.5" wheels. I think there's a 295 you can squeeze onto the little 19x9" wheel. As nasty as it looks, it seems to help for Stock class autocrossing. And oh yea, they need to be Hoosier A6 tires or don't bother. And oh yea, they'll last about 30-40 runs.
  • Lightweight wheels in the stock size. Custom 1-, 2- or 3-piece wheels to minimize weight. You can play with offset by 1/4", but otherwise the wheels have to be the exact same diameter and width as stock (or the optional stock package you upgrade fully to).
  • Alternate swaybar... at one end. You can add any aftermarket swaybar you want, even something totally custom, but only to one end.

That's about all you can do. So now you have $1500 gumball tires with a very short lifespan, $2-10K in shocks, a $200 swaybar, and maybe even $3000+ in custom lightweight wheels in the stock size. With marshmallow stock springs, skinny wheel widths, and no front camber or adjustment. I've driven cars like these and they handle like ass. But hey, "you're saving money" by running stock class! :hi:

I feel the Stock is one of the most expensive classes to run in competitively, not only because the weird limitation to allowed mods tends to eat tires at an alarming rate, but also because there is a relentless amount of car updating that takes place in most classes. A new model comes out that has an extra 50 hp? Time to sell your old car and get the new one. Oh, there's a special addition model now that has another 1/2" of wheel width! Time to upgrade. It can get a little crazy at the top levels.

Other classes you could run include:

  • STX (hopefully STU someday soon)
  • ESP (just don't buy a Watts Link that isn't made by Steeda or Fays2)
  • SM (don't plan on winning)
  • RTR/FS or RTR/ESP
I think of these 4 choices (FS, STX, ESP, SM, RTR) the only logical answer at the moment is ESP. You can still run the giant gumball R compounds and fancy shocks, but you can add negative camber up front to keep from shredding the outer shoulders, and add spring rate to keep the car from flopping around like a fish. If or when these cars are moved up to STU class that would be an even more cost effective option. And if you want to run on 140+ treadwear tires but utilize the mods from one of these other classes (FS or ESP), try the new RTR category. Saves you many thousands a year in your Hoosier budget by switching to ST tires.


Good luck,
 
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cbass

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I think part of my questions were misinterpreted. ;-) I'm not a stranger to the cones. I'm just way more experienced with front drivers.

Sounds like leaving it stock isn't the best choice for being competitive. Would be fun, but I'm no Strano or Daddio.

I'm thinking about staggering 275/315 Falken 453's on 20" wheels, which would bump me out of STU. Maybe I should find something skinnier.

Closing in on crunch time, just unsure how deep I want to go down the rabbit hole with this car.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 2
 

Whiskey11

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F-Stock allows slotting of struts (only a little) and Ford's Camber Bolts on ALL S197's. It's in the service manual as an acceptable adjustment of camber. Camber bolts are about $120 from your friendly Ford Dealer but includes two "caster" bolts as well that you don't need.

Terry, thanks for submitting that letter to the SCCA for the move to STU. I don't think there is anyone else more qualified than you and the Vorshlag crew to write such a letter as you have all of the data to back it up. I can only hope we get moved. Wider tires would be nice too but getting moved out of STX to STU is a great start!
 

sholzer

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As of right now, can you not a run a 5.0 mustang in STU? I was under the impression that if you ran a 285mm wide tire, you'd be bumped up from STX to STU (rather than, I'm guessing, ESP)
 

Whiskey11

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As of right now, can you not a run a 5.0 mustang in STU? I was under the impression that if you ran a 285mm wide tire, you'd be bumped up from STX to STU (rather than, I'm guessing, ESP)

Class hopping a Mustang from STX to STU is a no go and has been since the start of last season. :(
 

cbass

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Why the hell would you use 20-inch wheels?

The initial intent was street only, but the tire choices are actually decent. I sell tires and wheels, so I have to do something flash.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 2
 

stepqhen

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You'd want to upgrade your 18" wheel equipped car to the Brembo brake package,

... lots of stuff...

...Saves you many thousands a year in your Hoosier budget by switching to ST tires.


Good luck,

In Stock class the only way for him to run the Brembo wheels would be to replace every part of the car that was specific for the Brembo package. It would be a complete package swap, that is to say, any variance between a base level GT and a Brembo equipped GT would have to changed over.
 

Vorshlag-Fair

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It sounds like he's not that serious about FStock, and might even run it on street tires, so I wouldn't worry about swapping this or that. Just put the parts on you want and ask them what class you fit in. :)
 

lost won

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F Stock

I think the 2011+ suspension with Brembo or Track pack is pretty good for a stock setup.
I'm sure double adjustables would be better, but at a considerable cost.
Same for the boat anchor wheels, but again costs are considerable. I just left them alone, and put my budget into the Hoosiers.

I run a 2012 Brembo GT in FS. My only mods are Hoosier A6s in 295/30-19 and camber bolts; which yield about -1.5 degrees of camber.
The car is competitive locally, but certainly wouldn't be nationally. The mods pointed out by Terry Fair above would be a must for Tours and Nats.

I get about 40-45 runs out of the A6s, (on asphalt) which are my only real expense.
Strangely, I'm not cording the outside edges at -1.5 with turning them inside out at about 20 runs.
They seem to just heat cycle out at about 45-50 runs. We had 15 events here last year, typically four 60 sec runs per event.
So with a few practice days thrown in as well, I budget two sets of A6s per season.

The F Stock class is going to be populated with 2007/8 Shelbys, and maybe BMW M3s as well as the coyote engined 2011+ GTs.
Should be interesting.

P.S. Anybody thinking of running a 2011+ GT in autocross should, as a minimum, read everything Sam Strano and Terry Fair have written end to end.
They've BEEN there.
 
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Since you're moving from FWD to RWD, I would spend some time driving the car in a few events before spending alot of money. You need to establish a baseline before spending money to make it go fast. I would only buy a set of RTR legal tires...maybe Koni Sport shocks if your budget allows it.

I think the RTR class is a great way to compete. Besides the occasional new driver, our region doesn't have any other F-Stock cars. Last year we had some close battles in RTR...good drivers that normally compete in other classes.

Rob
 

JesseW.

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First, the Boss 302 is AS not FS.
Second, Sam put his 2011 on the top of the podium at Nationals in FS in 2010, so it can be competitive. I ran mine in FS for a year, it was competitive and I was never beat by a car, only by better drivers.
Lastly, since you have the 18x8s I am going to assume that the package you bought didn't have 19x8.5 as an option so you would be stuck with that wheel size. You can force a wider Hoosier on them, your tire guy will curse your name, but I am sure you could get a 275 and possibly a 295 mashed on them. I ran 295s on 19x8.5s and they worked well.

yeah, sorry about that, i saw the fastrack in dec, and didn't read that it was a proposal....

Stock
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]#9205 Boss 302 Classing
Per the SAC, the following class listing change proposal is submitted for member comment:
Ford Mustang Boss 302 (non-Laguna Seca) (2012-2013): move from AS to FS
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
 

Sam Strano

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well, the boss is allowed in the class this year, so with better spring rates and wider wheels you're already going to be at a disadvantage. the Shelby GT is still running well in the class with high spring rates that came on it, lighter weight, and 100hp less than the new 5.0's. i think i'd have to start with a boss for the class if i were to do it. also it has yet to be seen how the M3's that have been moved into the class will do. and we have a local crossfire srt-6 that is very strong in FS pax. the scca just moved it over also.


No it's not... it's proposed hasn't been decided.... :) Also I don't personally think the Boss is any better than a well done 5.0 Brembo car anyway.

I also still think the Shelby GT is the best car overall for most people.
 

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