Planning a Ford Racing “Aluminator” Build with associated mods over the winter

[TurboX]

Sorry to hear Scott, hopefully it was a small peck when Piston to Valve contact was made.

 

[Scott]

Sorry to hear Scott, hopefully it was a small peck when Piston to Valve contact was made.

What can I say other than "I have my finger and toes crossed"! Will find out next week.

 

[ILW84U]

That sucks. Sorry to hear Scott. Hopefuly it's not too serious & you get to enjoy the car before winter hits.

 

[SoCalGT]

Great Build man, I really hope this all works out for you. Good Luck

 

[lito]

I would not blame that spring for the failure. The spring only keeps the limiters in place, if they moved, the cam won't retard more than what is already set and a 550 limited to 20 won't cause PTV. There has to be something else going on and my guess is that "other issue" actually broke the spring.

 

[Scott]

That sucks. Sorry to hear Scott. Hopefuly it's not too serious & you get to enjoy the car before winter hits.

Great Build man, I really hope this all works out for you. Good Luck

Confident we will get there, but my friend Murphy is an optimist. lol

 

[Scott]

I would not blame that spring for the failure. The spring only keeps the limiters in place, if they moved, the cam won't retard more than what is already set and a 550 limited to 20 won't cause PTV. There has to be something else going on and my guess is that "other issue" actually broke the spring.

Lito, thanks for the heads up, this is my first 3V build and I am like a baby wondering around in the woods! I have looked to the expertise on this forum as my first and best source of information.

It would be greatly appreciated if you would offer any suggestions on what the “other issue” might be? My build consisted of new OEM Ford or FRPP components with the exception of the following related to cam timing: VCT Housings/Solenoids (new gaskets used in assembly) and camshaft position sensors. I used 2 Valve Steel Bodied Tensioners, F6AZ-6L266-DA Right Hand and F6AZ-6L266-CA Left Hand rather than the plastic 3V ones.

I assembled the timing components. When there were valvetrain issues the shop that installed the motor removed the front cover and took the time to confirm all timing marks were correct.

Confession time…..when installing the first FRPP Phaser Limiter Kit the phaser got slightly “cocked” when trying to hook the phaser spring around the second long cam phaser bolt. My Phasers had 2 long bolts. In addition to the short phaser bolts one of the long phaser bolts needed to be removed to rotate the cover. I did not keep track if this ended up being the RH or LH phaser. If it were installed on the RH side this could have explained a lot.

Cover rotated with spring hooked attached to long phaser bolt. Second long phaser bolt to the right.



This picture shows the second long bolt inserted after the spring has been pried back. The Phaser front and back went off a parallel plane momentarily and I had to twist it back. I understand the Phaser are pretty delicate, is it possible that the Phaser was ruined and this could have been the reason for the limiter spring brakeage and PTV?



At this point I have new Phasers and bolts with Livernois Lockouts in the motor.

I do have known to be good VCT solenoids and camshaft position sensors in my original motor. Should I swap them over?

 

[Timmbo]

Just another guy wishing you good luck Scott. It's such a sick feeling when things go wrong. Trust me, I know.

 

[BruceH]

Honesty is the best policy. It looks like the spring is hindered by going over the second long bolt.

Make sure you use a torque wrench on those phaser bolts. IIRC they are supposed to be 145 inch pounds. That's a lot of torque on those bolts but it's required to keep them in place. It may sound like a light torque value but when you put it on it takes quite a bit of force.

 

[tmcolegr]

Make sure you use a torque wrench on those phaser bolts. IIRC they are supposed to be 145 inch pounds. That's a lot of torque on those bolts but it's required to keep them in place. It may sound like a light torque value but when you put it on it takes quite a bit of force.

Can you confirm that torque spec.

I have always torqued those bolts to 85 in. lbs. as per Comps 5449 Limiter instructions

 

[BruceH]

Can you confirm that torque spec.

I have always torqued those bolts to 85 in. lbs. as per Comps 5449 Limiter instructions

I'm pretty sure it's the value I used and that I got it from the Livernois or Ford instructions. It's been awhile but I did go from Livernois limiters to lockouts to comp limiters so I did it a few times, lol. I distinctly remember it being a royal pain to hold the phaser and apply the torque with the torx bit.

Edit: Livernois updated instructions. Their original instructions called for 270 or some stupid high number. 145 in here: http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/downloads/Images/phaserlockoutinstructions.pdf

I'll see if I can verify it in the Ford manual.

Edit 2: The manual only calls for the phasers to be replaced. We could always look up the sae torque spec for it too.

 

[lito]

Sorry but I can't tell you what went wrong, how is the phaser pin? have you actually checked there was PTV contact?

What I meant is that with the limiters, they don't have a place to go, on every position imaginable possible they would move, total retard won't be greatly affected, it would still be around the same 20 degrees, on a 550, limited, there is no PTV possible if everything else is still good. Something else has to happen for it to occur, like a tensioner, guide, etc failure that would allow more rotation than 20degrees.

 

[Scott]

Honesty is the best policy. It looks like the spring is hindered by going over the second long bolt.

Make sure you use a torque wrench on those phaser bolts. IIRC they are supposed to be 145 inch pounds. That's a lot of torque on those bolts but it's required to keep them in place. It may sound like a light torque value but when you put it on it takes quite a bit of force.

Can you confirm that torque spec.

I have always torqued those bolts to 85 in. lbs. as per Comps 5449 Limiter instructions

I'm pretty sure it's the value I used and that I got it from the Livernois or Ford instructions. It's been awhile but I did go from Livernois limiters to lockouts to comp limiters so I did it a few times, lol. I distinctly remember it being a royal pain to hold the phaser and apply the torque with the torx bit.

Edit: Livernois updated instructions. Their original instructions called for 270 or some stupid high number. 145 in here: http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/downloads/Images/phaserlockoutinstructions.pdf

I'll see if I can verify it in the Ford manual.

Edit 2: The manual only calls for the phasers to be replaced. We could always look up the sae torque spec for it too.

Limiter install process I followed is in post # 67

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91539&page=4

I used 145 in-lbs with blue medium strength thread locker on all the bolt threads except for the long bolt securing the spring.

 

[BruceH]

Limiter install process I followed is in post # 67

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91539&page=4

I used 145 in-lbs with blue medium strength thread locker on all the bolt threads except for the long bolt securing the spring.

Good deal. I haven't been able to follow all the detail. I saw the ratchet in the pic and thought I'd say something just in case.

 

[Scott]

Sorry but I can't tell you what went wrong, how is the phaser pin? have you actually checked there was PTV contact?

What I meant is that with the limiters, they don't have a place to go, on every position imaginable possible they would move, total retard won't be greatly affected, it would still be around the same 20 degrees, on a 550, limited, there is no PTV possible if everything else is still good. Something else has to happen for it to occur, like a tensioner, guide, etc failure that would allow more rotation than 20degrees.

The only issue in the RH Phaser that the shop that disassembled it saw was the broken Limiter spring. Will examine the Phaser Pin closely when I am at the shop to remove the head. 15% leakdown/loss was measured on all RH cylinders to the exhaust.

 

[lito]

Did you had any sound? Maybe it skipped a teeth and the cam was off? A PTV usually cause more damage than a 15% leak and the cam being limited something weird has had to happen to have PTV.

 

[Scott]

Did you had any sound? Maybe it skipped a teeth and the cam was off? A PTV usually cause more damage than a 15% leak and the cam being limited something weird has had to happen to have PTV.

Motor is out:



Disassemble of RH Cylinder Head in progress:



RH Cylinder head off. Spark plug holes were plugged and each combustion chamber with filled with Brake Clean; intake and exhaust ports remained absolutely bone dry. No bent valves and PTV correct?

 

[lethe]

If there aren't any marks on the pistons then i would think the valves would be fine.

 

[lito]

^ this

Any new findings?

 

[Scott]

No marks on the pistons.

Not sure what to do next, suggestions?