What shocks and struts to buy?

[jayel579]

Have $: buy Koni STR.T's
Have $$: buy Koni Sports
Have $$$$: buy KW/AST
have $$$$$$$: buy **MCS/JRZ**

I edited this one for you

 

[03machme]

Seriously? I glanced through it quick enough to get the gist, but no one gives him any shit over something that's been beaten more than anything in this subforum? Are we that bored? Should we make another sticky to ignore?

Have $: buy Koni STR.T's
Have $$: buy Koni Sports
Have $$$$: buy KW/AST
have $$$$$$$: buy Moton/Penske

For real answer for the OP (and that may accidentally search for it and come across this):
Are you making money racing your car? No? On a budget but want "the best"? You'll be more than happy with Koni STR.T's

I understand there are other threads about this and I did read them. My main question was about the fact that I already have sportline springs and what would be the best shocks to go with those springs or if I would need new springs as well in order to have a decent ride as well as good handling performance. I do plan to track the car with as much autocross as I can and a road course or two once I get a few more upgrades. I appreciate all the responses.

 

[TheViking]

I have coil-overs on my SVO since the Maximum Motorsport LCA's don't have spring buckets. Plus it is nice not having to use springs designed for the nose-heavier 5.0 cars. But I could certainly do without the harsh ride on the street since that's where I spend most of my time. It also certainly doesn't help with tire/rim clearance.

On my 2012 I avoided this and stuck with Koni Sport's and Ford Motorsport P springs. These along with CC plates, spherical bushing LCA's and relocation brackets were a good compromise between stance, (some) adjustability, suspension travel, traction, etc for a dual purpose car IMO. I just did two days on the Summit Point Shenandoah in WV and was very happy with this setup, especially considering it's such a heavy car. But I was curious what others were experiencing which is why I asked. It just feels to me like the car is a very capable learning tool at this point without the compromises/cost of CO's.

 

[csamsh]

But don't coilovers give you reduced suspension travel compared with standard springs and shocks? Which is to say, aren't you more likely to hit the stops when driving on the street than you would with standard springs/shocks, even if the ride height is the same (since coilovers achieve their ride height adjustability by moving the entire assembly, while ride height variation with standard springs is achieved by varying the length and rate of the spring)?

No, with a properly designed coilover, your suspension travel is fine. You're LESS likely to hit stops because you can run higher rate springs and your dampers will be up to the task of controlling them. Coilovers do not achieve adjustability by moving the "entire assembly." There is a threaded collar that you turn to change the lower spring perch height relative to the strut.

^^ thats what I was thinking. I want a little better ride than I have now and I drove a friends 5.0 that had BC coils and it was terrible. He now has Konis and K springs and is much happier. I'm all sorts of undecided now lol

BC coils, found your answer! Cheap coilovers=crap.

Tein shock dyno:

Yes, any time you lower the vehicle you will have reduced suspension travel. Doesn't matter if you have coilovers or not. So don't "slam" the vehicle.

If you have shortened damper housings you can lower without using travel.

That's not entirely true. Tokico D-Specs + Steeda Sports rode worse than my Ground Control Coilover kits with over double the front spring rate (440 vs 200) and a 25 lbs/in increase in the rear (200 vs 175). Biggest change is that the dampers are valved correctly to have it not ride like ass. Cheap coilovers ride like ass because the valving is off and the dampers don't dampen the spring correctly.

I personally don't recommend cheap coilovers. I like my Ground Controls and at $1650 shipped to my door they are a bargain of solid performance parts. Good camber plates, good dampers and good springs. Also not the best but certainly better than any of the low end coilover kits that are barely more expensive than a good set of shocks/struts, springs and camber plates.

I've also heard that the AST 4150's ride pretty nice with those trick digressive damping curves.

For most people coilovers will be over kill. For those of us looking for a more competitive car, the freedom in spring choice and damping is HUGE for tuning the car.

Damn straight the 4150's ride great!!! I have 550# springs up front and it's at least as good as stock.

 

[kcbrown]

Yes, any time you lower the vehicle you will have reduced suspension travel. Doesn't matter if you have coilovers or not. So don't "slam" the vehicle.

Yes, but my concern is that coilovers will give you a shorter suspension travel than what you'd get with standard springs that would give you an equivalent ride height. My thinking here is that the travel of coilovers must be that which you would get if the coilovers were adjusted to give you minimum ride height, and that adjusting the coilovers to give you a ride height any greater than that would result in a taller ride height without a corresponding increase in the suspension travel.

What are your goals with the car? If you just want it to look cool, just slam the mofo to the ground and forget about it.

Actually, I want relatively minimal drop, a ride height in the front no lower than that of the Boss 302. From my aesthetic point of view, the ride height (as measured by the gap between the top of the tire and the fender) of the 2013/2014 GT500 is just about perfect.

My concern with going with coilovers is that if I did that and set the ride height to be what I want, the resulting suspension travel would not be sufficient, and that the only way to prevent the coilovers from hitting the stops would be to use spring rates significantly greater than what I'd be able to use with a standard spring setup at that same ride height, and that would yield a worse ride quality than what I'd get with standard springs.

Can coilovers give me a ride height with wheel gaps about the same size as those found on the 2013/2014 GT500? I know they're adjustable, I just don't know how much adjustability there is.

 

[kcbrown]

No, with a properly designed coilover, your suspension travel is fine. You're LESS likely to hit stops because you can run higher rate springs and your dampers will be up to the task of controlling them. Coilovers do not achieve adjustability by moving the "entire assembly." There is a threaded collar that you turn to change the lower spring perch height relative to the strut.

Okay, I think I follow, but that still means that the suspension travel of coilovers is fixed regardless of what the ride height is adjusted to.

While you can run higher spring rates and have that be properly controlled by the dampers, the problem here is that stiffer springs yield higher compression rates and, thus, a firmer ride compared with a suspension with longer travel, correspondingly lower spring rates, and dampers well-suited to them.

What I'm after is maximum ride quality for a given ride height. Since my aesthetic sense prefers a wheel gap about that of what you'll find on a stock 2013/2014 GT500, and I'll be running 285/35-19 tires on all 4 corners, my question is: which gives me more suspension travel for that, a good coilover setup adjusted for that aesthetic, or a standard spring setup that gives me that aesthetic?

 

[boardkat]

performance w/ budget? call strano. you're 99% of the way there (or more) and can focus on what REALLY matters

performance w/ needs you can specifically articulate with a local builder to work with through multiple valving iterations w/o a budget to get that last 1%? take an evo school. go to nats, re-evaluate, rinse, repeat. multiple times. then call your investment advisor

 

[Whiskey11]

performance w/ budget? call strano. you're 99% of the way there (or more) and can focus on what REALLY matters

performance w/ needs you can specifically articulate with a local builder to work with through multiple valving iterations w/o a budget to get that last 1%? take an evo school. go to nats, re-evaluate, rinse, repeat. multiple times. then call your investment advisor

Yes to needing to call an investment advisor for those puppies! $2700 for JUST the struts, no springs, camber plates, valving for that matter aside from some basic valving IIRC.... Another $900ish for the rear shocks. I think you should buy me a set Boardkat!

Cone 502 Racing Project Tilty now with a Public Option! Dual regressive curves, 550lbs*in springs up front, 275 lbs*in out back and some trick camber plates like the Vorshlag ones! Sounds like winning to me!

 

[csamsh]

Okay, I think I follow, but that still means that the suspension travel of coilovers is fixed regardless of what the ride height is adjusted to.

While you can run higher spring rates and have that be properly controlled by the dampers, the problem here is that stiffer springs yield higher compression rates and, thus, a firmer ride compared with a suspension with longer travel, correspondingly lower spring rates, and dampers well-suited to them.

What I'm after is maximum ride quality for a given ride height. Since my aesthetic sense prefers a wheel gap about that of what you'll find on a stock 2013/2014 GT500, and I'll be running 285/35-19 tires on all 4 corners, my question is: which gives me more suspension travel for that, a good coilover setup adjusted for that aesthetic, or a standard spring setup that gives me that aesthetic?

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=141_142_179&products_id=559

 

[kcbrown]

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=141_142_179&products_id=559

Thanks. I've considered those.

However, they're expensive (though, actually, perhaps not so expensive after you factor in the Vorshlag camber plates), nonadjustable, and I don't know anyone who has it, so I can't determine ahead of time whether it will ride the way I would like it to. There's also the issue that you get to choose which springs to use with it, and that raises the question of whether the dampers are specifically rate-matched in compression and rebound to the springs you choose or if they're "one size fits all".


Fortunately, I have plenty of time. I don't intend to make any changes to the springs and shocks until I've taken my GT to at least two or three track sessions in stock form. On the street, I'm very impressed with the GT's cornering (I have the track package). It's nice and flat and very precise. But it's really only on the track that you can safely take these cars to any sort of limit.

 

[2013DIBGT]

Thanks. I've considered those.

However, they're expensive (though, actually, perhaps not so expensive after you factor in the Vorshlag camber plates), nonadjustable, and I don't know anyone who has it, so I can't determine ahead of time whether it will ride the way I would like it to. There's also the issue that you get to choose which springs to use with it, and that raises the question of whether the dampers are specifically rate-matched in compression and rebound to the springs you choose or if they're "one size fits all".


Fortunately, I have plenty of time. I don't intend to make any changes to the springs and shocks until I've taken my GT to at least two or three track sessions in stock form. On the street, I'm very impressed with the GT's cornering (I have the track package). It's nice and flat and very precise. But it's really only on the track that you can safely take these cars to any sort of limit.

I wanted coilovers badly when building out my suspension parts list but like you I had some ride height requirements I needed to deal with.

All of the coilovers I would even consider purchasing had a Minimum drop beyond what I was looking for in order to keep them off of their internal bump stops within the damper housing.

Some of them would allow you to drop the car the equivalent of a Steeda Sport spring combo but the problem is you would be running the coilover in its upper most range of motion in doing so. There would be plenty of motion range in a full droop scenario but not so much in a bump scenario as you would already be living at the top of the bump range to begin with. Unless you have a double adjustable damper you may run into issues with bump and you may even greatly shorten the lifespan of the coilover running it in that upper range all the time.

I ended up making a sacrifice and getting a spring/shock combo because I felt it would be better suited to my 4x4 is'h ride height requirements.

 

[csamsh]

Thanks. I've considered those.

However, they're expensive (though, actually, perhaps not so expensive after you factor in the Vorshlag camber plates), nonadjustable, and I don't know anyone who has it, so I can't determine ahead of time whether it will ride the way I would like it to. There's also the issue that you get to choose which springs to use with it, and that raises the question of whether the dampers are specifically rate-matched in compression and rebound to the springs you choose or if they're "one size fits all".


Fortunately, I have plenty of time. I don't intend to make any changes to the springs and shocks until I've taken my GT to at least two or three track sessions in stock form. On the street, I'm very impressed with the GT's cornering (I have the track package). It's nice and flat and very precise. But it's really only on the track that you can safely take these cars to any sort of limit.

The beautiful thing about a lot of the stock style lowering springs, the rates aren't different enough (IMO) or high enough from spring to spring that the Bilsteins won't have a good handle on them.

 

[kcbrown]

One other thing of note: I find the track package ride to be sufficiently firm that I'm not really interested in anything firmer. The firmness feels about the same front and rear, and given the wildly different spring rate versus sprung weight in the front versus the rear, I have to conclude that the compression in the front struts must be significantly higher than in the rear shocks. That implies that going with lowering springs that will substantially change the rate/weight balance will require going with struts and shocks with compression damping that takes that reversal into account.

This implies that if Koni Sports are balanced under the assumption of greater spring rate in front than in the rear, and if I went with Koni Sports but either kept the stock springs or went with Boss 302 springs, the end result would be too little compression in the front and too much compression in the rear, with the result being that the car's behavior over the bumps would no longer feel balanced front to rear. It means that if I stick with a stock-like spring setup as regards the front versus rear spring rates, I'm likely to be best off picking up OEM Boss 302 dampers, as those will be valved to suit the spring rates found on the OEM cars.


EDIT: Ooops. Wrong thread. Sorry about that.

 

[Whiskey11]

I wanted coilovers badly when building out my suspension parts list but like you I had some ride height requirements I needed to deal with.

All of the coilovers I would even consider purchasing had a Minimum drop beyond what I was looking for in order to keep them off of their internal bump stops within the damper housing.

Some of them would allow you to drop the car the equivalent of a Steeda Sport spring combo but the problem is you would be running the coilover in its upper most range of motion in doing so. There would be plenty of motion range in a full droop scenario but not so much in a bump scenario as you would already be living at the top of the bump range to begin with. Unless you have a double adjustable damper you may run into issues with bump and you may even greatly shorten the lifespan of the coilover running it in that upper range all the time.

I ended up making a sacrifice and getting a spring/shock combo because I felt it would be better suited to my 4x4 is'h ride height requirements.

You got that backwards, if you run a set of coilovers up high you have tons of bump travel and little droop travel since in bump travel the strut body moves upward! That's assuming the ride height isn't done at the actual strut mounting ears. Ohlins have that feature and my buddy uses it exclusively in adjusting ride height on his Evo IX SE.

 

[2013DIBGT]

You got that backwards, if you run a set of coilovers up high you have tons of bump travel and little droop travel since in bump travel the strut body moves upward! That's assuming the ride height isn't done at the actual strut mounting ears. Ohlins have that feature and my buddy uses it exclusively in adjusting ride height on his Evo IX SE.

Welp, it looks like I let the Crack pipe get the best of me on that post.

Thanks for deciphering what I attempted to say.

 

[03machme]

I ended up buying some koni sports from 2013DIBGT on here. They should be here soon.

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