S550 Mustang Suspension and Powertrain Discussion

[Sky Render]

Even with big gooey bushings, the pinon angle change on an IRS will be an order of magnitude less than that of a solid axle car.

 

[NUTCASE]

Thanks for the large picture, Whiskey. It made this one little detail a whole lot more visible than in any previous underside view.

Norm

just noticed, they did not leave much room for fatter tire. if you go much wider you may have to add something to the fender. This is going to suck for everybody who wants to go fast. not just drag guys, but there are some road race guys out there who just take the point hit and like to run like 305 tire at all 4.

305 on that is going to look like an RC car.

 

[05yellowgt]

I don't know, it looks like there is at least an inch of room to go inboard in that picture (can't see the shock clearance on the top side). Getting the right offset wheel when going bigger is obviously going to be crucial.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I was laying under one of these last week. There is a TON of room to put fatter rims/tires on the rear. I could fit my fist between the tire and the tightest spot. Plus the outside can be moved about about 3/4". I'd bet you can put at least a 325 on the rear. The front is a little tighter but I have already seen the GT350 with a 305 on the front......and that is pretty big.

 

[05yellowgt]

Somebody got ahold of a 2015 and test fit a set of 20x10 HRE P101's with 315.35.20 Nitto NT05's and they fit well. I skimmed and didn't see what the offset of the wheels were and of course the Nitto's run narrow but this is a good sign in my book
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php/hre-2015-mustang-2726.html

 

[Boaisy]

Somebody got ahold of a 2015 and test fit a set of 20x10 HRE P101's with 315.35.20 Nitto NT05's and they fit well. I skimmed and didn't see what the offset of the wheels were and of course the Nitto's run narrow but this is a good sign in my book
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php/hre-2015-mustang-2726.html

For those who have expressed interest in the current FF01, yes our 20x9.5 et35 front and 20x10.5 et45 rear is a solid fitment on the S550 so you would be good to go on ordering that as a set.

The render on the silver car is the 10.5 front and rear. I will say that the 10.5 on the front will need spacers to clear the strut. This is something our engineers are still working on to determine exactly where this would stand if someone chooses to run a square 10.5 set up. Part of the hold on this is also making sure the GT PP 6POT 380mm front brakes clear.

We are still working on the fitment of the second style of FlowForm that we will debut at SEMA, so et are yet to be finalized. As stated however, the 20" will grow to 20x10 front and 20x11 rear. 19" widths and et's are still in the works and as mentioned 18x10 will also be available.

The HRE rep also said they are working to have 18's to clear the PPGT 6 POT Brembo's.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

The HRE rep also said they are working to have 18's to clear the PPGT 6 POT Brembo's.

HRE's New Flow Formed "FF01"

Yep, we had the national HRE rep for their new flow formed wheels come by our shop several weeks back. They have some pretty wheels, and they have an 18x10" that will be ready around SEMA this year.

Almost all of this new FF01 series has been 20" diameter, and mostly going to the Porsche crowd, but they are trying to get into the Mustang market. Their wheels look incredible, but they are pricey. At $750/each for an 18", that's a tough sell in the S197 market.

With nearly 2X the cost of a similar Forgestar, its going to have some tough competition on price. I'm sure their finishes will be second to none, and I've owned HRE wheels in the past. After we had this rep out to see us I called Forgestar and asked about any 18" wheels they might make that would clear the 15" (380mm) Brembos on the new 2015 GT?

They told me they already had this covered in their CF5 wheel, which they designed a few years back to clear the 380mm Brembo brake package specifically. This was news to me!

We had tested the Forgestar F14 18x10 on the 15" GT500 front brakes, as well as the D-Force LTW5, and neither cleared. It wasn't the spokes that interfered, but the barrel of the wheel.

Forgestar assured me their CF5 18x10" barrel clears. So I ordered one for a lobby display / 2015 GT test wheel a week ago, shown above. The black CF5 18x10" wheel's barrel is very different than the F14 18x10" wheelbelow it. That "step" allows for more caliper clearance.

So long story short, we're going to have 18x10" wheels for the 2015 GT PP car before the car even arrives. We're just now starting to see "pre-production" dealer trainer Mustangs arrive, but still haven't seen a V8 car yet (just Ecobombs). When we see a V8 '15 GT locally, our scales are charged and ready... and I'll bring this wheel and shoot pics of it on the car. They make the CF5 in 18x11 and 18x12" as well, so you might can guess what sizes our first sets will be.

 

[Whiskey11]

It's not a situation where I'd want poly or Delrin either.

I need a better picture than what I've seen so far, but it might be possible to use one spherical if the bolt axis to the other connection passes through the center of that spherical, and I think then you could use the one hard cylindrical bushing.


Yup. But maybe the aftermarket will release some firmer diff bushings to hold even a smallish PA change down still further and make a 1-piece d/s even more attractive. Should probably package the d/s and the bushings together.


Norm

Well I suppose we shall hope the one points at the other but knowing Ford's propensity for making the aftermarket work hard for their products, I'm willing to bet probably not. Then that brings up the inevitable question of which bushing is more important? The bushing that deals with lateral forces solely, which I'm assuming is going to be the stiffer of the two bushings from Ford since it has a minimal impact on NVH (like the front lateral link), or the further forward link that controls the fore/aft movement? A solid case could be made for either bushing being more important.

 

[NUTCASE]

At $750/each for an 18",

Mother of god.

sweet wheels, but what exactly about them justifies the price? Are they weightless while at the same time tough enough for street? Built of unobtanium?

or is it really all just charging what the market will bear, which is a lot when your customer base drives Porsche. If that is the case I could see some problems moving over the the s197 market, how are the Porsche customers going to feel when their $750 wheels show up in on mustangs for $350 and the only difference is some bolt space and offset.

 

[Boaisy]

Yeah I saw someone complaining about the price. HRE said most of their sets start around $2,900 a set. They said some of their 20" wheels can weigh in the mid to low 20 lbs. However, their main market is the European and Japan markets where almost any wheel costs that much anyways. Most of the people complaining about price told the HRE rep they would rather get Forgestar's or TSW's.

At $2,200 each, those P101's are out of my price range.

Would rather look at Forgestar's CF5V's instead at $400 each. Flow-formed wheels as well at 23 lbs. each.

Are the Flowform more affordable ?

Yes. Flow-formed wheels are actually made from low-pressure castings of aluminum wheels and then are "stretched" by a rotary flow-forming machine. When they do that, the aluminum becomes much harder and stronger resembling a fully-forged wheel, which are made from molten aluminum and then squeezed by huge presses into the wheel molds. By squeezing the aluminum under pressure, molecules become much denser making the wheel stronger (and subsequently it doesn't take as much aluminum to make those wheels and therefore they are lighter).

Even HRE has a flow-formed wheel, the FF01 - those run about $700 each and are made in Japan.

The P101 are Forged and made right here in house in San Diego CA, they are not our FlowForm wheel. We cut those P101 to test fit on the S550 to determine final fitments of the FlowForm wheels. Of note, if you have the budget, the P101 are worth every penny. They are our strongest and lightest Forged monoblock to date. The 20x11 that you saw here is under 22 lbs.

We understand. Starting pricing for our FlowForm wheels will remain at $2900/set, competitively, when compared to other recognized brands in Europe and Japan (taking into account the quality and build of these wheels).

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php/hre-2015-mustang-2726p5.html

 

[csamsh]

sweet wheels, but what exactly about them justifies the price?

Methinks it's the HRE centercap

 

[dontlifttoshift]

At 750 a wheel why not step up a little more to 795 and get a real forged monoblock wheel. http://finspeed.com/performance-wheels/f14/

They are real close to moving to Texas as well, right across from COTA.

 

[Sky Render]

For that money, I would buy a Volk/Rays Engineering wheel.

 

[Norm Peterson]

$750/wheel . . . yikes!!!

I don't think an 18 x 11 Forgestar, with a Michelin PSS tire shipped, mounted, and balanced comes to that much.


Norm

 

[dontlifttoshift]

You guys haven't priced Forgelines lately, have you?

 

[sheizasosay]

http://www.griggsracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=75_4400&products_id=607

If I'm gonna drop that much coin, I think a 10.5", 3-piece, forged wheel weighing 17 lbs for $973 sounds good. I mean...if we're trying to spend money.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

http://www.griggsracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=75_4400&products_id=607

If I'm gonna drop that much coin, I think a 10.5", 3-piece, forged wheel weighing 17 lbs for $973 sounds good. I mean...if we're trying to spend money.

Yea....

Show me an 18x10.5" 3-piece wheel on a scale weighed 17 pounds and... I'm going to want to have that scale checked.

 

[sheizasosay]

Yea....

Show me an 18x10.5" 3-piece wheel on a scale weighed 17 pounds and... I'm going to want to have that scale checked.

Don't come at ME with all that "data requirements"....I'm just a victim of advertisement.

EDIT-Have you weighed that wheel I linked?

 

[Dubstep Shep]

I can't speak for the wheels, but the numbers I was advertised on weight for the Griggs components I purchased weighed correctly on my scale.

 

[neema]

At 750 a wheel why not step up a little more to 795 and get a real forged monoblock wheel. http://finspeed.com/performance-wheels/f14/

They are real close to moving to Texas as well, right across from COTA.

These are some of the coolest forged wheels on the block. More affordable than HRE and Forgeline, and they fit brakes as large as 400mm in 18s. Just look at the shape of the barrel.