Massive RWHP Loss On Dyno

[Redline727]

The dyno is for tuning and is necessary for measuring gains when changing components and tuning. It lets you know if your safe BEFORE you head to the track and possibly cause any damage to your setup and correct any issues like this you may want to fix. He is doing the right thing. If he didn't he may not uncovered that he may have a legitimate concern with his drivetrain or tune. Or yes it's a possibility it's the dyno. But what if he went to the track and pulled out a solid run in good weather and a few tenths faster and was happy? There are so many variables at the track he may have never known there might be something wrong. Or even worse, that the something wrong is little now and can be caught and corrected before it turns into something big.

 

[Gremlin85]

That's what I'm trying to say, Redline. Thank you.

So I dug into the car.

I did a compression test and my results were fine. Here are the numbers for those curious, but it's within spec.

1: 162
2: 165
3: 154
4: 159
5: 162
6: 159
7: 159
8: 164

The spark plugs on the passenger side were all good. The driver side is another story. All the plugs were loose. Number 7 was barely tight at all. As soon as I put the socket on, it spun freely by hand. The coil pack was a different color as well.

There wad also oil built up in the spark tubes on 7 and 5.

Oil in 7

Oil in 5

Color difference from 7 and 8. 7 is tan and 8 is normal grey color.

Spark plug from 7... Don't mind the rust color as its from my Octane booster. All other plugs are fine.

The car still feels the same. I'll do more investigating, but I feel this was a step in the right direction.

 

[Gremlin85]

Anyone have any input on the loose spark plugs, the mis-colored coil pack or the plug itself?

 

[UltraKla$$ic]

John, would it be easier and maybe answer your question about the validity of your numbers and the integrity of your car if you just went to a different dynotuner and reran your car???? Just wondering if that is an option.

 

[Gremlin85]

John, would it be easier and maybe answer your question about the validity of your numbers and the integrity of your car if you just went to a different dynotuner and reran your car???? Just wondering if that is an option.

I plan to do that, yes.

But I felt the need to dig into the car first. I'm glad I did because I found the above issues.

I've never seen a car come with loose spark plugs before. All my driver side plugs were pretty loose with #7 just hanging in there. I didn't even have any misfire symptoms either, which really confused me.

New dyno is going to be scheduled soon.

 

[Redline727]

I plan to do that, yes.

But I felt the need to dig into the car first. I'm glad I did because I found the above issues.

I've never seen a car come with loose spark plugs before. All my driver side plugs were pretty loose with #7 just hanging in there. I didn't even have any misfire symptoms either, which really confused me.

New dyno is going to be scheduled soon.

If you go somewhere else try and find another Mustang Dyno. If you switch to a Dynojet you may see an increase in power just from the switch. Typically steady states (mustang,dyno dynamics) read lower than inertia (Dynojet). It will definitely be in your best interest for comparison to find the same type of dyno.

 

[K_Brogoitti]

I would recommend finding someone that has a dyno dynamics. Our dyno guys here in town are super consistent.

 

[BruceH]

If you go somewhere else try and find another Mustang Dyno. If you switch to a Dynojet you may see an increase in power just from the switch. Typically steady states (mustang,dyno dynamics) read lower than inertia (Dynojet). It will definitely be in your best interest for comparison to find the same type of dyno.

Not always. IME a standard dynojet has been the most consistent between different dynojet dynos as far as weather corrected numbers are concerned.

However, I prefer a loaded dyno. Haven't had the chance to use a LC dynojet or dyno dynamics yet but I've used a mustang dyno plenty of times. A loaded dyno or street pull is a must for any higher hp motor imo.

The biggest factor I've seen with a mustang is the weather information. It can change the corrected numbers in a big way.

 

[Exley]

I always thought that too. But these coyote motors run 11.6ish stock. Tuners don't lean them out any further than 11.9. It's been found that any leaner and there goes #8 or the like.

The wideband reading in the gauge cluster is using the E10 scale with 14.08 as stoich. 11.9 / 14.08 = .845 lambda. on a 14.7 scale that would be about 12.4.

 

[Gremlin85]

The wideband reading in the gauge cluster is using the E10 scale with 14.08 as stoich. 11.9 / 14.08 = .845 lambda. on a 14.7 scale that would be about 12.4.

This I know.

I am not using a Stoich scale of 14.7, I'm using the stock 14.08 Stoich as I run fuel with E10 in it. I tuned it to .845 Lambda to get the 11.9 AFR reading.


::EDIT::

And I'm pretty sure my issues of not getting any gain on the dyno are caused by my findings in my post above. All driver-side spark plugs were barely tight and #7 was just threaded in so lightly that I could turn it out by hand. There was oil that made its way past the threads and into the spark plug holes where the ignition coils are on both #5 and #7. I can only deduce that my compression was doing the same. I am still at a complete loss on how this did not cause any misfires or throw a CEL....

I am going back to the dyno in October.

 

[Exley]

::EDIT::

And I'm pretty sure my issues of not getting any gain on the dyno are caused by my findings in my post above. All driver-side spark plugs were barely tight and #7 was just threaded in so lightly that I could turn it out by hand. There was oil that made its way past the threads and into the spark plug holes where the ignition coils are on both #5 and #7. I can only deduce that my compression was doing the same. I am still at a complete loss on how this did not cause any misfires or throw a CEL....

I am going back to the dyno in October.

That sucks! glad you have a lead on whats going on though

This I know.

I am not using a Stoich scale of 14.7, I'm using the stock 14.08 Stoich as I run fuel with E10 in it. I tuned it to .845 Lambda to get the 11.9 AFR reading.

I had a feeling you did. I've seen you on the HP Tuners forums. I wanted to add that to the thread for other people reading though. I have a feeling a lot of people are looking at that number in the dash from the perspective of a 14.7 scale. That will make it look extremely rich for an NA car

 

[Gremlin85]

That sucks! glad you have a lead on whats going on though



I had a feeling you did. I've seen you on the HP Tuners forums. I wanted to add that to the thread for other people reading though. I have a feeling a lot of people are looking at that number in the dash from the perspective of a 14.7 scale. That will make it look extremely rich for an NA car

I'm hoping I'm on to something lol.

I have other issues of getting my readiness monitors to set.

Glad to see someone else understands the fueling aspect. I neglected to include that in this thread that my WOT AFR readins are based on E10. My bad.

Hopefully my findings are the issue and I've cured it. I do not have another Mustang Dyno in the area that I know of - I looked up quite a few shops and they all run dynojets. My October runs are back at the original place on the same dyno. Hopefully the weather is similar to my base runs and I'll be back on track.

 

[Flapjack]

dy·na·mom·e·ter (dīnəˈmämitər),
noun
- an instrument that measures the power output of an engine.

You guys are reading too much into this. A dyno measures torque. As a simple calculation, most, if not all will also give you a horsepower rating as well... as that is just a measure of work over time.

Trying to take a car to the track and measure the difference in ETs, then definitively attributing that difference to a change in your engine's configuration is ridiculous. Removing variables is what a dyno SHOULD be doing. You have far less control over the variables at at track.... FAR less control.

The dyno is for tuning and is necessary for measuring gains when changing components and tuning. It lets you know if your safe BEFORE you head to the track and possibly cause any damage to your setup and correct any issues like this you may want to fix. He is doing the right thing. If he didn't he may not uncovered that he may have a legitimate concern with his drivetrain or tune. Or yes it's a possibility it's the dyno. But what if he went to the track and pulled out a solid run in good weather and a few tenths faster and was happy? There are so many variables at the track he may have never known there might be something wrong. Or even worse, that the something wrong is little now and can be caught and corrected before it turns into something big.