Unusual rear brake wear

[modernbeat]

That's OK. Just know that the traction control works by grabbing rear brake, sometimes when you don't expect it. And it will grab often and hard enough that you won't have enough rear brakes to go home on, or maybe even not finish the day with.

Street brakes are easy enough to destroy on track. The traction control wears them out even faster. Just go into the event knowing that and plan for it - ie. bring another set of pads, tools and fluid to change brakes after the event so you can drive home.

 

[Ingwe]

I'll be doing my first HPDE (at this track and in this car) in a couple weeks at Gingerman. My car is new 2014 auto with Brembo package, 1000 miles on it with the Good Year F1 something or others. I fully get the pads should be changed but they won't be before this event. I am signed up for novice group with instructor and should get five 20 minute sessions.

Being said novice, the thought of turning of traction control scares me. I am Ok admitting I kind of like the idea of it babysitting me. I planned to put trans in sport mode and have a 7/10th's sort of day learning this car hopefully.

How about this? You're out there for 5 sessions. Turn traction control off and do the first session 5/10ths and build your confidence up. Learn the way the car responds at a slower safer level. Next one try 6/10ths. Then for the next, build up to 7/10ths. If you take it slow and steady you'll find having traction control off is nothing to be scared of. Better to do that and get longer time learning on the track than having to take time out to change your pads mid way through the day or worse, run out of pad and have to finish early.

 

[midlife5.0]

Good points. One bonus I have is my home is only 6 miles from track. I can limp home easily enough if need be.

 

[dontlifttoshift]

It is impossible to learn how the car reacts with the traction control on. The only time the car scared me was when the TC was left on accidently and it grabbed a handful of rear brake in a left hand sweeper. Turn it off and learn to drive.

Gingerman is a good place to learn. There aren't many places to get hurt, T11 is the only one that can wreck your car.

 

[Travis R]

Mine clamped down so hard that it was hampering acceleration down the straights. I guess I boiled the fluid near the rear calipers. I had to turn it off and take a cool down lap. Then the brakes were fine the rest of the day.

 

[csamsh]

Even better plan...go do some autocross with tc off where you can drive like an 11/10ths asshole and not really damage the car. Then head to the track, where everything will then feel like its happening at a snail's pace

 

[midlife5.0]

It is impossible to learn how the car reacts with the traction control on. The only time the car scared me was when the TC was left on accidently and it grabbed a handful of rear brake in a left hand sweeper. Turn it off and learn to drive.

Gingerman is a good place to learn. There aren't many places to get hurt, T11 is the only one that can wreck your car.

Thanks for the info. I have actually done one HPDE event at Road America in a 1995 C4 Vette with about 350HP, stock suspension and pads that could take it. Much larger track for sure and I scared the heck out of myself a couple times.

At Gingerman I am somewhat familiar as I did one of those exotic car rental days they do. I think I did 16 laps split between Lambo Gallardo and 911 Turbo. By end of session in 911 instructor was complimentary if nothing else to say thanks for blowing all this money today!

I auto-ex'd a lot back 15 years ago but not in anything this powerful or NEW. Integra and Miata mostly. So I am not a total novice I guess but it's been a long time.

 

[w9b5155]

I greatly appreciate any and all feedback from all of you folks. I'm new at this and just thinks it's awesome how much info is shared freely on this forum. Thanks guys!


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[w9b5155]

I turned my traction control off for 2 of 5 sessions as I forgot to the other 3 times. It was my 1st day too. I honestly didn't notice a difference.


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[kcbrown]

I turned my traction control off for 2 of 5 sessions as I forgot to the other 3 times. It was my 1st day too. I honestly didn't notice a difference.

You would notice a difference, but only if you're pushing the car hard enough.

But there are situations in which the traction control will be obvious.

I spun on the exit of turn 11 at Sonoma this past weekend. That stopped the engine because I didn't remember to put both feet in until it was basically all over.

Started the engine, then completed the lap (turn 11 is just past the entrance to the pits) and came in. Had forgotten to turn off the traction control after starting the engine back up.

I was taking it easy going around the track while completing that lap, but despite that, the traction control was going crazy, activating on nearly every corner, to the point of being ridiculous. It was activating under circumstances where there was no way the rear was anywhere close to coming loose. Got to the pits, explained what I did wrong, turned off the TC, and went back out and finished the session.

Seems a spin might make the traction control at least temporarily paranoid or something...


Anyway, I have forgotten to turn off the TC before, and there were times when it would activate when going around the track, but it was in situations where I could see why it might. That was the first time I'd seen the TC be paranoid. It normally requires that you push the car a bit before it'll kick in.

 

[Boaisy]

Even better plan...go do some autocross with tc off where you can drive like an 11/10ths asshole...

I like this.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I'll be doing my first HPDE (at this track and in this car) in a couple weeks at Gingerman. My car is new 2014 auto with Brembo package, 1000 miles on it with the Good Year F1 something or others. I fully get the pads should be changed but they won't be before this event. I am signed up for novice group with instructor and should get five 20 minute sessions.

Being said novice, the thought of turning of traction control scares me. I am Ok admitting I kind of like the idea of it babysitting me. I planned to put trans in sport mode and have a 7/10th's sort of day learning this car hopefully.

According to the online version of the 2014 Mustang OM, you can turn just the TC off without shutting the AdvanceTrac all the way off by momentarily pushing some button once. Page 181.

I have no idea what Sport Mode does to/for the TC nanny. My '08 only has TC, which unless I forget is always turned off.

With TC off, you'll want to squeeze (not stomp) into the throttle on corner exit, and as mentioned before just gradually sneak up on how much throttle you can add and how fast you can add it. If you've pushed the button just once, the stability control nanny is supposed to still be on duty in case your right foot gets sloppy/twitchy/otherwise stupid, and should help keep things from getting out of hand.


Norm

 

[midlife5.0]

Well the Brembo package comes with some sort of different parameters to the traction control tuning that is supposed to be more forgiving. What exactly I do not know. In sport mode on the auto 13&14 cars you can manually shift gears with button on side of handle. Not much use in road racing but in sport mode it also holds RPM's higher and will not downshift so often or in turns as I understand it so more predictable. I'll find out.

 

[claudermilk]

Even better plan...go do some autocross with tc off where you can drive like an 11/10ths asshole and not really damage the car. Then head to the track, where everything will then feel like its happening at a snail's pace

This. Very much this.

I started with the S197 chassis doing autox. First time out, I left everything on, then turned TC off, leaving AdvanceTrack on. After having the rear end YANKED back in line with that I said "fuck this" and have turned everything off since.

After getting comfortable with the chassis autocrossing, I moved to a track day. As was mentioned, everything seems to be happening in slow motion compared to the quick, violent maneuvers dodging cones. To me, that is extremely helpful in that you feel like you have lots of time to plan out what you are doing & evaluating what the car is doing. I found I wasn't really getting the expected sensory overload (and what some others in my run group were obviously suffering from).

So, start with autocross, then graduate to open track and take time ramping up the speed.

Jason, I did not perceive your post as elitist. Just good advice. Really, what you mentioned is exactly why I spend so much time lurking here. There is a lot of good experience being shared. I have gone into driving and modding this car with so much more knowledge than if I hadn't hung around. Thus far, it has helped with putting what I feel are the right parts on the first time, and accelerated the learning curve immensely. To the point, I stopped bothering going to any other Mustang forum.

 

[midlife5.0]

According to the online version of the 2014 Mustang OM, you can turn just the TC off without shutting the AdvanceTrac all the way off by momentarily pushing some button once.

Norm

Good find. Apparently you can also turn them both all the way off by holding brake and pressing button for more than 5 secs.

 

[Boaisy]

When I first started, I would use sport (brake and double tap), and then eventually went to full off (brake, 0 mph, 5 secs.) during track days/autocross. I'm mostly sport mode or full off even during daily drives too.

 

[cop on my back]

I'm pretty sure if you ask any HP driving instructor they will tell you to turn off the babysitters for the track (traction control, stability control, all that shit). I have always drivin with that stuff turned off. A skilled driver that is familiar with the handling characteristics of thier car can out perform these gadjets IMHO.

 

[claudermilk]

Good find. Apparently you can also turn them both all the way off by holding brake and pressing button for more than 5 secs.

Yes. You hit the button once to turn off TC, then hold the brake and press the button for 5 sec for AdvanceTrack. Then everything is off. Sport mode (if you have it) is like Boaisy said. Owner's manual pg 173-174 covers this.

Turning these off all the way is part of my normal start-up procedure for autocross.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I'm pretty sure if you ask any HP driving instructor they will tell you to turn off the babysitters for the track (traction control, stability control, all that shit). I have always drivin with that stuff turned off. A skilled driver that is familiar with the handling characteristics of thier car can out perform these gadjets IMHO.

First, it depends on the organizing entity's position on the use of TC and stability control. At least one that I know of rather strongly prefers that you leave them on, at least for your duration as an instructed novice (unless you can convince your instructor or coach to let you run with them off).

I'm less sure that you can make any blanket statements about a skilled driver vs the nannies. Let me explain. What you get as sort of a base-level nanny is calibrated quite conservatively in order to keep all the less skilled drivers out of trouble (they need more help, sooner). Sport modes where offered loosen the reins a bit, but still won't let you drive at the absolute limits of car capability. In this latter case, your own consistency out near the limits will have a great deal to do with whether you'd be reliably faster without it (one hero lap among a string of scattered times and an "off" doesn't count). A separate question is how long you can maintain that high of a level of focus/concentration without any lapses.

Before you conclude anything about my own position on the use of these technologies, my '08 only has TC, which gets switched off out of concern for rear brake pad life, and I've been driving for far longer than these technologies have been consumer-available.


Norm

 

[kcbrown]

Yes. You hit the button once to turn off TC, then hold the brake and press the button for 5 sec for AdvanceTrack. Then everything is off. Sport mode (if you have it) is like Boaisy said. Owner's manual pg 173-174 covers this.

I didn't think it was necessary to turn off TC as a separate step. My understanding is that holding the brake and pressing the button for 5 seconds turns off both AdvanceTrac and TC.

Certainly, I've never felt the system engage at all on the track, even when spinning the car , with the system turned off via the 5 second button press...


I initially kept forgetting to turn off the TC/AdvanceTrac, so I put an instructive label on the center of the steering wheel as a reminder...