throw out bearing rattle after cams

[rojizostang]

several of us have talked about how after installing hot rod cams the tranny will rattle...this is in neutral. with the clutch depressed, it stops. so i was reading in the dizzels thread about someone saying that his throw out bearing rattles around because of a hydraulic/bleeding issue. now i've never had the clutch, tranny, or any of the driveline out of the car except for the drive shaft and gears, so i don't imagine it would be an "incorrect bleeding" issue.

it can be fairly noticeable...i don't think it actually hurts anything..but what could be the cause/cure?

also, fwiw, i've never owned a mustang that didn't have at least a little throw out bearing noise...

 

[BSell]

You're saying it is the throw out bearing because you hear the noise in the bellhousing and it goes away when the clutch pedal is depressed? How far do you have to push the clutch in? All the way in stops the noise or just some pressure to stabilize the bearing against the pressure plate?

The reason I ask is some car makers go to great lengths to quell the gear noise caused by the 'hammering' of the power pulses from the engine at low RPMs. Take the older 911's, they had rubber clutch centers to stop the 'gear chatter' when pulling from low RPM's. Let's just say that 'fix' caused other problems, can you say rattling clutch plates? I can! Especially after the rubber hardened and ripped...

Since the transmission is turning with the clutch engaged and engine idling, I wonder if folks are hearing the gears chattering within the transmission due to the newly lopey idle vs. the throw out bearing flopping around on the shaft...

What do you think?

Brian

 

[silverstang07]

I have had a trans/clutch noise like that since I installed my comps.......it doesnt do it ALL the time, but I still hear it often. I just live with it.

 

[rojizostang]

i'll have to experiment with that

You're saying it is the throw out bearing because you hear the noise in the bellhousing and it goes away when the clutch pedal is depressed? How far do you have to push the clutch in? All the way in stops the noise or just some pressure to stabilize the bearing against the pressure plate?


What do you think?

Brian

hmmmm....i never really checked to see at which point it stops. i'll have to check that out. if i get you right, if it stops as soon as i apply a little pressure to the clutch, then it's probably the bearing.

if not, then gears in the tranny?

thanks for the idea

I have had a trans/clutch noise like that since I installed my comps.......it doesnt do it ALL the time, but I still hear it often. I just live with it.

exactly

 

[hammeron]

hey rojizo, did this rattling noise start
immediately after the cam install, or did
it take a few weeks or months to
develop.

 

[07samCS]

i have the same issue as rojizo and mine started as soon as i put the cams in.

rojizo- i was at ford discussing this with the service manager and he seems to think that its a gear in the front of the tranny doing it. he said for me to dump the atf fluid thats in it and change to royal purple synchromax and see if i hear it as bad. he said that ford has atf put in them for a long lasting fluid and that the royal purple will have to be changed more often but it should stop 99% of my noises (1st to 2nd grind when cold and the chattering at idle). he recommends a change in trans to the customers that have cams put in.

are there any synchromax people that have these cams and still have the chattering that we know of? id like to think he knows what hes talking about since he was always able to diagnose my lightning just by listening to it.

 

[rojizostang]

hey rojizo, did this rattling noise start
immediately after the cam install, or did
it take a few weeks or months to
develop.

i'm trying to remember...can't say for sure, but it's been going on for a while, so i'm going to have to say from the start. only it doesn't do it all the time

i have the same issue as rojizo and mine started as soon as i put the cams in.

rojizo- i was at ford discussing this with the service manager and he recommends a change in trans to the customers that have cams put in.

i assume you mean a change in trans fluid, right?

been thinking about doing the rp synchromax. i was out there a while ago programming my new dual mode shift light...started it, ran the car, idled it, and this afternoon it wouldn't rattle. as soon as i hear it rattling i'll try the slight pressure test

 

[07samCS]

yeah trans fluid but ford says its the same as the mercon v they put in the 4r100 automatics. the service manager kept just calling it automatic transmission fluid (ATF)

mine does it anytime the car idles below 950 rpms. ill go play with it in a little while and see what it does.

 

[rojizostang]

yeah trans fluid but ford says its the same as the mercon v they put in the 4r100 automatics. the service manager kept just calling it automatic transmission fluid (ATF)

mine does it anytime the car idles below 950 rpms. ill go play with it in a little while and see what it does.

let us know, thanks

 

[hammeron]

ok thanks 07samCS and rojizo, this is interesting.

guys the reason i'm curious about this, is because
lately i've been thinking that the twin clutch
disk rattling i hear, while driving at low rpms,
might really be coming from the transmission itself.

maybe the cam rattle and the twin disk rattle,
are two sides of the same coin.

i have the same issue as rojizo and mine started as soon as i put the cams in.

rojizo- i was at ford discussing this with the service manager and he seems to think that its a gear in the front of the tranny doing it.

 

[Hitman]

mine has been doing it for a while. The trans has been out to check everything and they can't find anything wrong. It only does it after the engine and trans are warmed up. I NEVER hear it when the engine is cold.

It only does it when I release the clutch taking off in first gear. If I rev the engine alot to take off fast, it doesn't do it. If I use just the clutch and no throttle to take off, it makes the noise for a second then it goes away as I drive off. Sometimes I hear it at very low speeds in second and third too.

 

[rojizostang]

i've only noticed it at idle in neutral. weird, maybe there are different reasons this is happening in different cars....i'm assuming everyone with this symptom has the stock 5m, clutch, and tob? except for hammeron, he's got the twin disc

 

[hammeron]

bingo! that is very similar to the infamous
twin disk rattle.

i had also been wondering, if this rattle
only happens on vehicles with one piece
drive shafts. the idea being, maybe the
stock two piece dampens the drivetrain
resonance and therefore this is why we
didn't hear the tranny rattling.

i never heard any rattling, when i had the hot
rods in and i still had the two piece drive shaft....

Sometimes I hear it at very low speeds in second and third too.

 

[EagleStroker]

ok thanks 07samCS and rojizo, this is interesting.

guys the reason i'm curious about this, is because
lately i've been thinking that the twin clutch
disk rattling i hear, while driving at low rpms,
might really be coming from the transmission itself.

maybe the cam rattle and the twin disk rattle,
are two sides of the same coin.

My twin disk does it at an idle sometimes, interesting indeed.

 

[rojizostang]

i've never noticed it while driving..i've had the 1 piece ds before the cams...now when i'm going too slow and the cams are loping in too tall a gear...that's another story...not the same

it seems the twin discs can do it, along with the stockers....kinda makes me think it's not actually the clutch...

 

[rojizostang]

okay, i just went outside and did the little experiment 07samCS suggested....the rattling doesn't stop until the clutch is almost fully depressed. this makes me think that it's neither the clutch or the tob, but probably the tranny.

i think the rp syncromax treatment is definitely the next order of business.

i suppose i should stop powershifting at the races.....NOT

 

[EagleStroker]

okay, i just went outside and did the little experiment 07samCS suggested....the rattling doesn't stop until the clutch is almost fully depressed. this makes me think that it's neither the clutch or the tob, but probably the tranny.

i think the rp syncromax treatment is definitely the next order of business.

i suppose i should stop powershifting at the races.....NOT

I'm thinking that's a very legitimate point. Mine doesn't stop even when the clutch is fully depressed. Guess its time to change some fluid...

 

[hammeron]

yep and i've played around with pressing
the clutch pedal, while making my twin
disks sing and it had no effect on the noise.

it would definitely be cause for celebration,
if changing the tranny fluid actually made
the rattle go away. i will remain cautiously
optimistic and await the reports.

Mine doesn't stop even when the clutch is fully depressed.

 

[07samCS]

rojizo- rp synchromax fixed my chattering. so whatever it is its inside the tranny and not the TOB

 

[rojizostang]

rojizo- rp synchromax fixed my chattering. so whatever it is its inside the tranny and not the TOB

i had mine changed today. i've only driven it about 15 miles since the change, but so far, it hasn't helped at all.

i'll probably reset the idle to around 850 instead of 750. it rattles less at that rpm