LED headlights vs HID's

[Bullitt 3309]

To the dudes who have done a retrofit - what kind of guide did you use for modding the housing? Or did you just start cutting bits off?

Seriously considering picking up an extra set of lights and throwing some projectors in 'em.

Got to hidplanet.com and just read some of the build threads. Not to many s197 builds, but the the process is the same. The main challenges are opening up the lights, then mounting/aiming. The Morimoto Mini H1 are pretty much a plug and play option, The D2S will require opening up the bulb hole and the best option the FXR will require a good bit of fabrication with special care for aiming the lights. I would recommend getting a set of cheap ones off ebay to practice opening them up before you commit.

 

[Bullitt 3309]

You folks with hids.....are you using 35w or 55w ? Mine are 35w. 55w must be stupid bright.

The Mini H1 6.0 and Mini D2S 2.0 are limited to 35w since 55w could burn the bowls. When I convert to the 3.0 Mini D2S I am stepping up to 55w. I wont be able to give feedback until I am done.

 

[Saleen4971]

Had 35, now at 55 on my fxr. It's awesome.

Fxr is a lot of work, mh1 is easier than a hooker, and Md2s is still pretty damn easy, just a bit of work (as Bullitt 3309 said)

 

[Pentalab]

Oracle LED kit finally arrived from CJ Pony Parts..late friday afternoon. They are 5000K, not 6000K. There is no longer a mini din connector (with locking ring) between led driver and 3 pin connector ( which mates to ford oem connector).
It's hardwired from led bulb assy to led driver with a short cable. Then another short cable, also hardwired on both ends, from led driver... to 3 pin connector. However, there are 4 x counter sunk machine screws on the base of the led driver.

This latest LED design incorporates a "rocker reflector" around each led. One led on top, and the 2nd led below. Top led is low beam. And bottom led is high beam.

On the box....." Another notable engineering design that was incorporated into this bulb is the "rocker reflector", a specially designed LED focusing aid that assists in directing the light to follow a geometrically-accurate path in order to mimic the output direction of the halogen bulb, which reduces light scatter and glare, while increasing beam width and also maximizing light throw as well as visible lumens"

They also had several diagrams showing leds with..and without the "rocker reflector". The little reflectors are actually pretty big vs the actual led. The light is far more focused. They are made to retrofit into an oem halogen reflector housing.

One caveat, it came with an extra sheet. IF you have day time running lights
(DRL), this led kit is NOT compatible with DRL , due to the lower voltages used on DRL. If you want the equivalent of DRL, during the daytime, you must switch the mustang light switch from fully CW position, over one notch to the left, which just puts the normal, low beams on AND all the red/yellow running lights, + lights on the rear plate. I do that anyway for max daytime visibility, so no big deal. With my Black 2010, I want max daytime visibilitiy, so normal deal is low beams on + all running lights. If they can't see me, they will hear me.

Funny thing is, my HID kit did work with DRL, BUT it gave me normal low beam
(and not the normal reduced light output u get with typ drl, like when oem halogens used). Pissing down rain today, but wx is sunny the next few days, so I may get it installed soon.

IMO, I believe they have finally figured out the light scattering issue when leds used in an oem halogen housing. I don't see anyway they could possibility install a mini reflector under any hid. Easy with leds, since each bulb has an upper + lower led. On my hid kit, when on hi beams, tiny electromagnets turned on in each hid assy, and pulled the entire hid bulb back aprx 1/4". That changed the focal point, and high beams resulted. My low beam hids worked great (when bulb /ballast actually works). They are lousy when on high beam though. Angled up too high, reducing the hi beam effect.

Hopefully the led retrofit into an oem halogen housing is no longer an issue with the latest led design. They also machined the cast aluminum bulb body assy to create a 'wind cavity' to enhance cooling the leds. It also comes with a small fan on the back of each assy. Air comes in the back, then inside, cools the leds, then exits the machined slots that are 360 deg around the base. The slots are one big heatsink. leds are just light emitting diodes of course, and u don't want em > 160F, just like a transistor.

 

[tigerhonaker]

Jim,

It will be interesting to see what you have to say once the weather clears up and you can do the install. ^^^

 

[Pentalab]

Led kit now installed last wed am. DRL works just fine. On DRL, I get low beams with reduced voltage on it. Small fan on back of heat sink spins the same rpm regardless of whether in DRL mode, normal low beam mode, or high beam mode.

Low beam is the upper leds, high beams is BOTH upper + lower leds. Each assy consist of an upper 14 watt led, and a lower 14 w led.

Bright close in, BUT, like other's have noted, it does not project forward very much.
When in high beam mode, it's not much brighter at all, a real piss off. We tested with a friend in another vehicle, and I could be behind her, and not blind her with my high beams on. When driving towards each other, same deal. She could hardly see any difference when I switched to high beams.

The up /down adjustment is described on pages 59-65 in the user manual. It said to use a 7mm allen wrench..which is too big. A 6mm fits like a glove. 6mm fits into the blue adjustment fitting, from above. 6mm perpendicular to grnd. On the back of housing, there is a small nylon ribbed /splined shaft that rotates, when u rotate the 6mm cw or ccw. That adjustment has ZERO effect on the up/down pattern on either side WTF ?? I can see the clearly defined cut off... but it does not budge, even with several full turns of the 6mm allen key.

I'm baffled with this. As is, I can easily drive around each night on busy streets, with high beams ON, and never get flashed.

So what the heck is going on here, and why zero difference with the up /down adjustment on each side ? I just about hit a deer both wed + Thursday nights...I'm not impressed.

Top led is low beam, bottom led is high beam. It's all wired correctly. Top led angles the beam down, and bottom led angles it up. On high beam I get both leds, and the near field pattern is brighter, but doesn't project way down the road.

What is wrong here....or is the up/down adjustment not having any effect, just an anomaly of led retrofit lights into an oem halogen housing ??

BTW, there is NO left / right horizontal adjustment on the 10+ mustang, per the user manual.

 

[tigerhonaker]

Jim,

Thanks for the Matter-of-Fact review above ^^^

Terry

 

[702GT]

You folks with hids.....are you using 35w or 55w ? Mine are 35w. 55w must be stupid bright.

I thought the same thing when I was hunting for HID setups for my F250. Here is what I've learned about the difference between a 35w and 55w HID setup.

55w HID's are roughly 15% brighter over the same 35w setup. The big difference is bulb life in relation to light output. 35w HID's typically carry a bulb life of about 5,000 hours, while a 55w is around 3,000 hours. When you consider how a HID bulb works, a 55w kit doesn't trump a 35w kit in light output. As the arc wears down the bulb, it diminishes light output. By the time the 55w bulb wears down to 80%, the light output will be the same as a 35w. The 35w setup will maintain its light output far longer than a 55w. A 35w kit is more practical as it is more efficient over time.

 

[Pentalab]

Jim,

Thanks for the Matter-of-Fact review above ^^^

Terry

Tnx Terry
I still have not figured out why the up / down adjustment has zero effect.
Just about hit a dead racoon laying on the center line sat night. Its head was lopped off, and I see it at the last possible second....so swerved to the left to straddle it.....then a split second later, I see the dead carcass, straddling the double center line, and pulled hard right, and just nicked something. 15 mins ago I almost nailed a rabbit in front of my house. Narrowly missed deer and fawns wed / thursday / friday nights.

As I write this st 5:44 am, we have fog outside. Amazingly, the leds work perfect in a fog, even with hi beams on....go figure. they are super bright..out to about 40' in front of the car, then the pattern just dies on me.

I see the new 2016 jap cars all use led headlights, but they also have the correct housing for them. Both my PIAA 55w haologen small fog lamps mounted on the cdc lower grille have died..... no big loss since they are next to useless anyway. Even when angled up a bit, they project nothing in front, and a tiny bit on each side, enough to get flashed by other driver's. When they were working, you can't even tell they are on!

So I give up for now. A semi decent driving light might be the ticket, if I can find a place to mount it that doesn't obstruct airflow..then use it to supplement the leds. There really is no place to mount one, can't use either the upper or lower grille area..and can't install below the cdc lower grille. Wait, just occurred to me the front license plate area might work. I might be able to slice enough off the top + bottom of the plate..then move it to the top..to free up space at the bottom, I will measure it up.

I also noticed something else with these damned leds. Hang a left onto a side street, and zero light while turning left, its like the pattern is cutoff to the left, that's not normal. Then toss in the blockage from the A pillar, with the triple stack of aeroforce gauges on the SOS pillar (the top gauge is the one that creates a dead spot / blockage)...and it makes for an interesting evening.

So if you want to kill pedestrians / cyclists / deer / rabbits / racoons / squirells....leds are the ticket.

 

[tigerhonaker]

Thanks again for telling it like it is ^^^

Well it looks like I will keep exactly what I have for front lights.
Mine do work when both the fog-lights and headlights are on at the same time with the bulbs changed in them.

T.

 

[Macman45]

Subscribed.

I "Hate" the optional HID OEM headlights on the 2008 Mustangs.

I wish I knew more about the options on the market to Up-Grade my factory HID's.

For you younger guys seeing at night is not an issue.

Age unfortunately effects our nighttime vision.

Just trade me for my non-OEM with RetroSolutions aftermarket HIDs! 5000K and you can see for miles

 

[bujeezus]

maybe i just had really shitty headlights on my last car coz my headlight are amazing now.

 

[Bullitt 3309]

Tnx Terry
I still have not figured out why the up / down adjustment has zero effect.
Just about hit a dead racoon laying on the center line sat night. Its head was lopped off, and I see it at the last possible second....so swerved to the left to straddle it.....then a split second later, I see the dead carcass, straddling the double center line, and pulled hard right, and just nicked something. 15 mins ago I almost nailed a rabbit in front of my house. Narrowly missed deer and fawns wed / thursday / friday nights.

As I write this st 5:44 am, we have fog outside. Amazingly, the leds work perfect in a fog, even with hi beams on....go figure. they are super bright..out to about 40' in front of the car, then the pattern just dies on me.

I see the new 2016 jap cars all use led headlights, but they also have the correct housing for them. Both my PIAA 55w haologen small fog lamps mounted on the cdc lower grille have died..... no big loss since they are next to useless anyway. Even when angled up a bit, they project nothing in front, and a tiny bit on each side, enough to get flashed by other driver's. When they were working, you can't even tell they are on!

So I give up for now. A semi decent driving light might be the ticket, if I can find a place to mount it that doesn't obstruct airflow..then use it to supplement the leds. There really is no place to mount one, can't use either the upper or lower grille area..and can't install below the cdc lower grille. Wait, just occurred to me the front license plate area might work. I might be able to slice enough off the top + bottom of the plate..then move it to the top..to free up space at the bottom, I will measure it up.

I also noticed something else with these damned leds. Hang a left onto a side street, and zero light while turning left, its like the pattern is cutoff to the left, that's not normal. Then toss in the blockage from the A pillar, with the triple stack of aeroforce gauges on the SOS pillar (the top gauge is the one that creates a dead spot / blockage)...and it makes for an interesting evening.

So if you want to kill pedestrians / cyclists / deer / rabbits / racoons / squirells....leds are the ticket.

This is why we need to wait for the aftermarket to catch up to the OEM's in regards to LED lighting technology. The aftermarket hasn't had the time or resources to equal the OEM's. Driver quality is the big thing, but I think the next 12 to 18 months will change that. I will stick with my retrofit HID for now.

 

[Pentalab]

Ok, the up/down does indeed work, but here's the trick. It requires a 6mm allen
(not a 7mm like the manual sez). CW raises the beam. CCW lowers the beam. But you have to crank several turns, as in 5, to raise it above the center line of the main beam axis. Just got back from local ford dealer, where they kindly helped me out for a few mins. What baffles both of us was when the high beams are on, the pattern lowers a bit, and is a bit brighter. Top led is low beam, bottom led is high beam. When on high beams, you get both hi + low...go figure. With top led on, the pattern is angled down. When bottom led on, it angles up...per Oracle, the led maker. Now, I probably have the damn things aimed too high, but at least they are both the same. I will test and tweak a bunch more tonight, when it's dark out. Dealer had vehicles inside, near the wall, where they usually do headlight alignments, so we tweaked out in the parking lot, easy enough to do, dark overcast day today.

Stay tuned for results of further tweaking. I suspect they indeed will work properly, or at least half assed, but require substantial vert adjusting..vs my previous hids + halogens. We verified there is NO horizontal left / right adjustments at all.... not good with some aftermarket hid kits that throw extraneous light towards oncoming traffic when on low beams.

 

[tigerhonaker]

Staying tuned for your further comments and reviews ^^^


.

 

[NUTCASE]

I was seriously sold on LED headlights for a minute there. I mean hell LEDs work everywhere else right?

I think I am just going to get some high end sylvainias until either the LED market comes around.

 

[Pentalab]

I was seriously sold on LED headlights for a minute there. I mean hell LEDs work everywhere else right?

I think I am just going to get some high end sylvanias until either the LED market comes around.

Leds do work everywhere else.... except car headlights.. (unless.. u have a 2015 /2016 Jap car). I just installed led outdoor flood lamps, motion detector types. Eq of a 120 watt incandesant, but only suck 20 watts. I have leds inside the home too, work great. The outdoor floods run cool, and good down to -40 deg F. You can also run em with a dimmer. Available in several different color temp configs, from warm white to harsher, but even brighter.

IMO, to make leds work properly in a mustang, they require the correct mating housings to go with them. (and not just stuffing leds into a housing made for oem halogens). Once they figure that out, no doubt ford etc, will have led headlights as oem equipment here fairly soon.

Watch out with the high powered halogens, they can and will cook the casing, lens, wiring /relays/fuses, etc. They run blazing hot.

 

[Saleen4971]

so long story short, i know what im talking about?

 

[NickD87]

You sure the LEDs are not upsidedown, generally highbeams will project light higher for better visibility, I'd be curious to see what would happen if you were able to flip the bulbs

 

[Pentalab]

You sure the LEDs are not upsidedown, generally highbeams will project light higher for better visibility, I'd be curious to see what would happen if you were able to flip the bulbs

There is NO way to flip the bulbs. They bayonet in the same way as a halogen, with the wide and narrower slots + mating tabs.
I just got in the door from a friends place a few mins ago....and it's a super thick fog outside. I used my 2011 Fusion, since the mustang woulda woken up the dead when I left the house at 2 AM.

Once I parked, I had the stang keyfob with me so activated the low beam light on the stamg...yikes, not good. ( like high beams on the halogen equipped 2011 Fusion). I then put the key to the on position ( eng off on the stang)... then I could toggle the new leds between high + low beams. Brighter still, but a lot worse. BUT it lights up the foreground better when on high beams. I'm now convinced the damn things are reversed. It also has another anomoly, it shoots out a distinct beam, like flashlight diam, up at a super steep angle ( 50 degs), and slightly outboard.... (driver's side shoots both up and towards the left of the main front-back axis of the car..and vice versa on pass side). It also puts this flashlight sized beam down at a steep 50 deg angle, and also outboard...... on both sides.

You get a real eye opener in a fog, it's dead giveaway to the screwball pattern. The only way to rvs the hi-lo is to swap the 2 outside wires. The center wire is common, this is the 3 wires on the plug..that mates to the oem ford connector, also 3 pin. ( or get em to send another pair, this time internally wired correctly).

However, their diagram and video clearly show the upper led as being lo beam.. and bottom led as high beam, which is exactly how it is currently configured. Common sense, looking at the side profile of a reflector housing, the lower half of the parabola is angled downwards, and the top half of the parabola is angled upwards, so I say they have it ass backwards. No wonder nobody flashed me around town with high beams on. The fog tests confirms all of the above drivel I just wrote. I'll contact the led company, and also CJ pony parts.

Stay tuned, the gong show continues.