LED headlights vs HID's

[Pentalab]

I replaced the oem halogens in my 2010 GT with 35 watt 8000K hids. Great, now I can actually see at night. The new hids are brighter than the halogens + oem upper grille foglamps combined. Upper grille replaced with a 7 bar grille, so oem upper foglamps were deleted. Real small 55 watt PIAA halogen foglamps installed on upper lip on cdc front spoiler.

The hids have been a pita. 1st one of the xeon bulbs crapped out, replaced. Then a ballast went dead, replaced. Then a 2nd ballast went out, and that time I bought an entire new kit..just for replacement parts. So ballast fixed via spare from new kit. Then both lights went dead, one bad bulb, and one bad ballast. Fixed again. 2 months later, and now int ballast on drivers side..and flickering on pass side hid. To top it all off, pass side PIAA foglamp went dead a yr ago. 3 weeks ago, the driver's side PIAA foglamp went dead. This is over the last 3 years. No luck.

I see that AM sells OEM FORD replacement 6000k hid xeon bulbs and OEM ballasts...but the price will make u gag. $382.00 for EACH ballast..and $392.00 for EACH xeon HID tube/bulb. And only a 2000 hr 'warranty'. (plus u require the special oem ford hid headlight fixture assy).

Ok, plan B. I'm done with HID's. Looked everywhere for LED headlights for the last few months. Finally found some at CJ Pony parts, $170.00 for a pair. Drop in replacement for oem halogen setup. Comes with led bulb assy, which contains an upper 14 watt led for low beam..and a lower 14 watt led for high beam. Both leds are used for high beam.
( you get both low + high beams when on ..'hi beams' ) .

Oracle who makes em, sez the leds are supposed to be good for 30,000 hrs. Each assy comes with it's own led driver. The maker sez the leds are the eq of a 6000k HID..and that each side puts out 2200 lumens when on low beam. ( and presumably double that when on hi beam, since both leds are then on).

Dunno if anybody has tried these led headlights. Halogens are not bright enough for me...and my experiment with hids has been a failure. I know a few other folks who have tried other brands of aftermarket hids, with similar results.

If these leds actually work good, I'll report my findings. If they crap out or led drivers crap out, etc, I'll report that too. The led driver is sorta like a mini BAP. The leds require more than 14 vdc to operate. They are supposed to be drl compatible as well. http://www.cjponyparts.com/oracle-lighting-headlight-bulb-conversion-kit-led-2005-2012/p/BULBH13LED/

http://www.oraclelights.com/automot...bs/ORACLE-H13-LED-Headlight-Replacement-Bulbs

 

[Mr. Q]

from independent tests the led's are worse than halogens. they "look" brighter, but don't throw the light as far as halogens or hid's. hid's were the reigning champions.

here's the vid i saw:

 

[Kylar]

DDM sells pretty nice HID setups that are reliable, and wont break the bank.

http://www.ddmtuning.com/

 

[ChrisGT]

Mr. Q posted a good video. I tried LED's one time. The light output is total crap on our big halogen reflector buckets. They looked good as far as color temperature and such, but they could not throw light far enough ahead. Also the hi-beams didn't give any more light than the low-beams. They were horrible.

They did look good in pictures, though. I liked how they only illuminated the top half of the headlight like the OEM HIDs do.. it gave the car a more high end look. Not worth the loss in light output though. My favorite lights on the 05-09 cars are the OEM HID setups.

 

[tigerhonaker]

Subscribed.

I "Hate" the optional HID OEM headlights on the 2008 Mustangs.

I wish I knew more about the options on the market to Up-Grade my factory HID's.

For you younger guys seeing at night is not an issue.

Age unfortunately effects our nighttime vision.

 

[Kylar]

Also, i forgot to mention. If you are going HID, get a projector housing that is not tinted/smoked. HID's in the stock halogen housing is not the nicest for other drivers.
http://www.americanmuscle.com/2010-headlight-black-0509.html

The OEM Ford HID Headlights arent as good as projectors, but definitely better then the stock halogens.

 

[Mr. Q]

Agreed Tiger, although I'm not as aged as some, my laser eye surgery hinders my night vision so I've been saving up for factory hids, regardless of looks. ...it's a safety issue for me.

 

[eighty6gt]

http://www.theretrofitsource.com/

I am thinking of doing a projector retrofit into a new set of halogen housings this off season.

http://forums.corral.net/forums/art...ectors-into-new-edge-headlights-easy-way.html

Might look horrible. Who knows, I'm pretty crafty. The results look nice, ie: the lighting and cutoff.

 

[Mustang Mark]

DDM sells pretty nice HID setups that are reliable, and wont break the bank.

http://www.ddmtuning.com/

+1 on ddm tuning, I've had them in my car for around 2 years and I haven't had any issues with bulbs or ballasts.

 

[Pentalab]

I just discovered yet another issue with my aftermarket 8000k hids. On high beam, they use an electromagnet to retract the bulb a bit, like aprx 1/4 to 3/8 " . The low beam pattern is pretty good, but I'm using the hids in the oem fixture made for halogens..so I get some amount of light scattering. I never get flashed. The high beam pattern leaves a lot to be desired. Sure, it lights up signage from 3 blocks away, but it's as though it's projected too high..and doesn't illuminate the road very well.

The high beam function on driver's side is now dead, won't retract the xeon bulb. Tonight at least, the damned driver's side int hid decided to work. The usual deal is I have to put it into park, and toggle light switch between parking lights and normal low beam headlights a few times to kick start it. 2 nights ago, even that didn't work.

It seems that there are leds...and there are leds. Right now, I require something, anything that actually functions. If the led kit ends up a dud, at least I can use it in the interim till I decide what to do next. In the meantime, I will run some tests on known local roads, so I have a baseline to compare too..until the led kit arrives.

To really do this right, whether leds or hids used, the correct housing is required...which I don't have. I see PIAA now makes led driving lights that are just wicked....like 2" x 6" up to 2" x 16". Look more like an aircraft landing light. Commercial trucks use em in the middle of the night, on unlit hwy's.

Some of the led kits out there came internally wired backwards from the factory. They were brighter on low beam vs hi beam. The single led used for low beam was the wrong led. Some led kits swap the power between bottom + top led when toggling from low to hi beams. Some led kits use 1 led for low beam..and both leds for hi beams. Lumen output varies quite a bit depending on the kit.

 

[tigerhonaker]

Agreed Tiger, although I'm not as aged as some, my laser eye surgery hinders my night vision so I've been saving up for factory hids, regardless of looks. ...it's a safety issue for me.

Mr. Q.

No surgery here but I know for sure the optional HID headlights with the stock bulbs suck on the S-197 Mustangs.
And when I make that statement I'm referring to older guys not the younger group on here.
In my case I changed the bulbs in the HID lights and also added the center mounted fog-lights.
Also changed the bulbs in those.
Now when I have to drive at night I can at least for the most part see pretty darn well.

If there was on the market a complete Up-Graded HID or LED headlights that actually work I probably would have mine changed to them.
Unfortunately it seems the after market kits are not all there crapped up to be.
They might look bright in pictures but actual light out-put on the road seems in many cases to be very questionable.

Here is a link to what I did on mine to give better lighting if you want to check it out.
And the changes I made do work and are many-many-times improved over the Factory completely stock HID lighting IMHO.

Eleanor Style Grille W/Halo Fog Lights W/Luminics Bulbs

http://www.imboc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2070549&postcount=1568



HID Factory lights to "Replacement" HID Lamp-Bulbs !!!

Roll through the posts and you will see pictures of the comparison of the bulbs.
http://www.imboc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182853&highlight=HID+headlight


Terry

 

[Saleen4971]

okay.....

HID and LED "drop in" kits that go into halogen housings? horrible.

"but i can see more!"

no - you can not ACTUALLY see more. if by some miracle the random beam pattern you get from using an incorrect bulb in a reflector that is designed specifically for halogens does give you more light on the road, realize that your foreground is limiting your vision, straining your eyes, blinding other drivers around you, AND with higher color temps, washing our and ruining contrast making it more difficult to differentiate objects.

LED is even worse, because its incompatability with halogen (and HID) housings is even worse, not to mention inferior output capability.

putting a drop in HID kit in a halogen projector wont be the WORST thing, and it may even be relatively "safe" (not getting into heat issues, burnt bowls) but it is far from ideal.


OEM LED headlights are outperformed by HID currently. in the future, LED will come out ahead, but that is not today. as of today, LED headlights are far more expensive than HID, with less output.

HID projector retrofit is your only option for proper beam pattern and light output. is it as easy as plugging crap in? no, but its not that hard, either. especially since projectors like the morimoto mini-H1 and mini-D2S have come out. hell, you can even go with b stock, or generic MH1 and save a good chunk of change! you can spend as much as you like, or as little as a couple hundred bucks - just be aware that once you retro, you wont be able to go back to halogen


headlights are a safety concern for you, your passengers, other drivers, and any passengers they have. dont be stupid, dont be cheap, do it right.

 

[ChrisGT]

^Those actually appear to look really good. What projectors did you use? They look like an appropriate size for the 05-09 reflectors.

Any more pics from the front?

 

[Saleen4971]

i can get some more tomorrow. it was a 3" FX-R 3.0 retro i did (and have a thread on) with the intention of keeping it as OEM-looking as possible.

 

[Pentalab]

I looked at terry's imboc notes and see that when he went to the aftermarket new hid bulbs that the new bulbs did not have the metal ring around the base. On one of terry's notes, he sez the new bulbs do not have a defined cutoff like the oem bulbs..when pointed at something solid, like a wall. My guess is that is why the oem bulbs have the ring around the base, to eliminate scattering effects.

Dunno where Ford and AM gets off charging $382.00 for EACH ballast..and $392.00 for EACH bulb. ( oem hid bulbs + ballast).

Normal deal for alignment, at least back in the old days is for the driver's side to be angled inboard a bit, where as the pass side is pointed straight ahead. And both sides needed to be angled down to correct level. Start changing the rake on the car with different wheel / tire combo's...and u may well need to do some tweaking.

CJ Pony parts just informed me 5 mins ago, my led kit is enroute. For around the city, which has loads of street lights, they should be adequate. I have a potential 'fix' for driving on roads with no street lights...and no oncoming traffic.

 

[Saleen4971]

from independent tests the led's are worse than halogens. they "look" brighter, but don't throw the light as far as halogens or hid's. hid's were the reigning champions.

here's the vid i saw:

this video is horrible. they dont even mention what housing is being used until half way through - they SHOULD have started off by saying that it was in a projector, and show the results from a reflector.

even then, without locking the cameras exposure (both still and video) you cannot use them to compare light sources.

also seems that they had fog lights on during the video portion at least, which is even worse.

if you are trying to educate people, you shoudl do it properly. they did not. hell, even facts and spelling were wrong.

 

[tigerhonaker]

i can get some more tomorrow. it was a 3" FX-R 3.0 retro i did (and have a thread on) with the intention of keeping it as OEM-looking as possible.

I just went over and read all the posts on the thread you did earlier on your up-graded lights.
Very informative ...........

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121249

I wish there was a company that offered a plug & play headlight system that greatly improved over the OEM HID S-197 headlights.

.

 

[Mr. Q]

this video is horrible. they dont even mention what housing is being used until half way through - they SHOULD have started off by saying that it was in a projector, and show the results from a reflector.

even then, without locking the cameras exposure (both still and video) you cannot use them to compare light sources.

also seems that they had fog lights on during the video portion at least, which is even worse.

if you are trying to educate people, you shoudl do it properly. they did not. hell, even facts and spelling were wrong.

Huh. I didn't think the video was too horrible in making my point that led's were not a viable option for specific light output versus halogens.
I sorely need something better than halogens though....it's so bad that I won't drive my mustang most nights and tend to just drive my bmw around at night because the factory hids are awesome.
I need to check out your retrofit thread when I have some time, your car looks decent, then again, I really don't care about looks over functionality for night time driving.

 

[Saleen4971]

just to be clear i wasnt lashing at you personally, but the video makers.

keep in mind that our headlights are not projectors. they are massive reflectors.

you can do a mini-H1 retro, its easy, not too expensive depending on what parts you choose, and will give you some damn good output.

 

[Mr. Q]

Ah, I wasn't taking anything personally, no worries lol.
I was looking at your thread and man it looks like a lot of work. Thinking maybe I just buy oem hids off eBay for $300/a side...