Motor is gone

[Freaknazty]

nope cekim steve had a 03 cobra steel block his went to shit too , so they are having the same problems

 

[94tbird]

FUCK

 

[Freaknazty]

another thing to keep in mind is the 2v-4v guys are busting these things too so that blocks out the whole limiter thing causing the problem too because they dont have the vct lol believe me ron im looking too my motors still apart now so i wanna find something out just as bad lol

 

[ZmanM3]

From 1000 feet - seems like you have about 3 options (maybe 4?):

1. Hydraulics
2. Harmonics
3. Metallurgical failure and/or incorrect computation on Fords part of the loads seen in the pump.
4. All of the above?

Here's a totally unsubstantiated, perhaps way off base, data-free, random Wild-Ass-Guess:

Wondering if perhaps its just a dumb random act of timing to get it just right and have either harmonics or engine configuration in a split second create a hydraulic lockup (potentially highly localized) between a lobe or lobes of the pump,the outer ring and the outbound oil path?

Get enough pressure/distortion in the right place and POW - that outer ring shatters like glass either for lack of anywhere else for the oil to go, vibration or both... After that, everything follows...

BTW - anyone confirm or deny that they were above 6250RPM when these happened?

Sounds more like a SWAG (scientific wild ass guess).

 

[ZmanM3]

FUCK

Does that "FUCK" indicate a newly discovered problem or is it just a general indication of your frustration?

 

[cekim]

nope cekim steve had a 03 cobra steel block his went to shit too , so they are having the same problems

huh...

Well, that seems to toss the block, valve-train, chains and phasers all at once since they have 4 not 2 and different length chains...

Back to the pump/crank/dampener...

BTW - I am not wedded to the idea of a hydraulic lock-up vs just plain-old harmonics, but a lock might explain why the MMR pumps started showing this sooner - they improve the block-to-pump seal which may have been an unintentional fail-over valve for whatever this condition might be (i.e. the lack of an O-ring seal there allowed it to squirt out enough to prevent the pump from breaking in the stock config where the MMR config reached the critical pressure sooner)...

Still shooting without a scope here so feel free to point out the flaw in my thinking...

 

[thump_rrr]

Does that "FUCK" indicate a newly discovered problem or is it just a general indication of your frustration?

I've been helping Ron put the motor back together for the last 2 days.
We finally got it all back together at 2:00AM this morning.
We prelubricated the oiling system to pump up the chain tensions and verify that oil was going everywhere.

Upon startup we had great oil pressure(90psi cold) but we have a slight random knock which we can't locate. This knock doesn't follow the rpm of the motor but is a single knock every 2-3 seconds. As far as we can tell it isn't coming from either of the heads when listening with a stethoscope.
We also removed the belt to eliminate the possibility of it being from the blower or one of the accessories.
It was 2:00AM and we had pulled the car outside to start it so that we wouldn't wake up the dead so jacking the car back up to listen to the bottom end wasn't an option.

 

[Freaknazty]

huh...

Well, that seems to toss the block, valve-train, chains and phasers all at once since they have 4 not 2 and different length chains...

Back to the pump/crank/dampener...

BTW - I am not wedded to the idea of a hydraulic lock-up vs just plain-old harmonics, but a lock might explain why the MMR pumps started showing this sooner - they improve the block-to-pump seal which may have been an unintentional fail-over valve for whatever this condition might be (i.e. the lack of an O-ring seal there allowed it to squirt out enough to prevent the pump from breaking in the stock config where the MMR config reached the critical pressure sooner)...

Still shooting without a scope here so feel free to point out the flaw in my thinking...

nope makes perfect sense because i can tell you all they do is put the o-ring the whole cyro-treating the gears thing is all bs ......

 

[94tbird]

anyone want to buy this car...just make real offers please im so not in the mood for jokes

 

[MLC40]

I've been helping Ron put the motor back together for the last 2 days.
We finally got it all back together at 2:00AM this morning.
We prelubricated the oiling system to pump up the chain tensions and verify that oil was going everywhere.

Upon startup we had great oil pressure(90psi cold) but we have a slight random knock which we can't locate. This knock doesn't follow the rpm of the motor but is a single knock every 2-3 seconds. As far as we can tell it isn't coming from either of the heads when listening with a stethoscope.
We also removed the belt to eliminate the possibility of it being from the blower or one of the accessories.
It was 2:00AM and we had pulled the car outside to start it so that we wouldn't wake up the dead so jacking the car back up to listen to the bottom end wasn't an option.

Peter you are a good friend, please keep all sharp objects away from Ron.

 

[s197shockwave]

Ron, i feel your pain. your story seems very similar to my 1996 gt story. I went through two built motors with that car and well over $28000!! It put a strian on myself, and my marriage. At these levels the hobby is no longer fun, and you begin to ask yourself "what was i thinking??" . All i can say is learn from your mystakes. I have had to more mustang after the 96, but i have kept their set up alot more simple, and safe. I also try and do all the work myself(most shops can't be trusted, and when something fails everybody points the fingure at the next guy down the line). Your not the only one who has been their, and it will get better friend.


thump_rrr- your a good guy man, what you are doing is super hero like! lol!

maybe this will make you feel better. I finally got my 96 gt to put down good numbers, (after $28000 and the cost of the car) then all of a sudden it blew a head gasket. My wife said " no more", and i sold the car for $7000. Never again my friend.

 

[94tbird]

thats what im thinking about now, selling the car or parting it out, putting a stock motor back with the kb at 10psi and being done with it

 

[ZmanM3]

I think once you have a chance to clam down you may feel differently. I actually put my smaller pulley in for the last month after all my belt problems just to keep things nice and safe if somewhat less powerful.
As for the knock, I use to have a dodge dakota and got a knock that wasn't related to the engine running, it turned out to be a cracked cross over pipe in the exhaust. Wielded it up and no more knock. I'm wondering if something similar could be at fault. I was put in the mind of that after thinking about how your air jack system works, i.e. maybe it bent or broke something under the car.

 

[US-1]

....putting a stock motor back......

This idea has crossed my mind 56,873 times since Bradenton. I know the frustration.

Anger makes bad decisions.

 

[Freaknazty]

i hear ya ron believe me the more and more i think about it the more i just want to sell the whole setup top to bottom and go back completely stock

it just started with the valve thing but now this oil pump shit has got me on a ledge and i know damn good and well my tranny won't be far behind then the rear end ect. like you said it's getting to where it's not even fun anymore it's almost getting to be a chore fucking with this thing in all , im very very tempted to just cut my loses and buy the damn gt500 and be done

 

[ZmanM3]

i hear ya ron believe me the more and more i think about it the more i just want to sell the whole setup top to bottom and go back completely stock

it just started with the valve thing but now this oil pump shit has got me on a ledge and i know damn good and well my tranny won't be far behind then the rear end ect. like you said it's getting to where it's not even fun anymore it's almost getting to be a chore fucking with this thing in all , im very very tempted to just cut my loses and buy the damn gt500 and be done

Haha, I thought about the GT500 when I was having belt problems. I talked the local stealership down to 40K on a new 09 GT500. I was very temped.

 

[shanec]

Anger makes bad decisions.

Coming from Darth Vader, I think this guy knows what he's talking about.

 

[94tbird]

if i coul;d get anythnig for my car on a trade in id swap for a GT500 right now, literally right now. but its hard for me to make that decision with the time and money i have inve3sted into this car. I wouldnt get anything for the mods. I would have to part out the car and then buy the gt500. and i would need stock parts in return for some stuff. If i9 had the money id buy the GT500 now, swap parts then sell the 05 but it jsut cant work like that for me. And By the time i sold off the parts and was ready to trade in the 09s will be gone and id have to get the fugly 10' rear end

 

[white05gt]

I know after the money and trouble I have had with my setup I wish I would have bought a gt500 and I haven't had the problems of the built motor as some of you since I'm still on the stock motor for now. Good ole hindsight lol

 

[ZmanM3]

Ohh, I was seriously considering it Ron, but a month later I'm glad I didn't. Once you get this fixed and its running good again, you'll probably completely change your mind.