Why are throttle bodies so expensive?

[BruceH]

I wonder if I can port out a gt500 TB to the VMP specs. Just need to make new blades to fit. Hmm going to look into it. Hard to say how much stock is on this thing.

You can purchase an adjustable reamer for the bores. I bought one a few years ago with the intention of boring out stock bores. Never did a thing with it.

Something to think about when it comes to throttle bodies is that you can go too big. Just like with carburetors. Too big with a tb and your tuner might have a hard time with part throttle driveability.

The drive by wire throttle bodies our cars use don't have iac or any other hardware adjustments to keep the right amount of air in the motor for all conditions. Instead they rely on the throttle blades and electronic adjustments to the blades to mimic the older air flow adjustments.

 

[Wild White Pony]

Has anyone compared the performance increases with these throttle bodies and have some dyno graphs to show these gains? Would be nice to see 4-5 of these aftermarket TB in an actual side by side test. IMO listing of upgrades by performance impact I would place TB's on the far end of the list, you probably gain more hp putting a clean air filter on.

That being said the stock TB seems to get lots of corrosion especially if your injecting meth. This 4yr old BBK TB I use doesn't seem to corrode at all, I just took it off tonight to fit this Snow Performance Injection plate and it's clean like new.

Too bad this Injection plate failed to fit.

 

[palanza7]

You can purchase an adjustable reamer for the bores. I bought one a few years ago with the intention of boring out stock bores. Never did a thing with it.

Something to think about when it comes to throttle bodies is that you can go too big. Just like with carburetors. Too big with a tb and your tuner might have a hard time with part throttle driveability.

The drive by wire throttle bodies our cars use don't have iac or any other hardware adjustments to keep the right amount of air in the motor for all conditions. Instead they rely on the throttle blades and electronic adjustments to the blades to mimic the older air flow adjustments.

Good info - yeah just from a visual I don't think there is enough stock on the gt500 TB to make it as large as the VMP one but I haven't actually taken the time to measure it. I don't see any problem making larger blades to fit the larger bore. I'd figure just increase the diameter of the blades the same amount of stock I remove from that section of the throttle body and it should function the same just with more flow? Won't know until I try ;p

 

[BruceH]

Has anyone compared the performance increases with these throttle bodies and have some dyno graphs to show these gains? Would be nice to see 4-5 of these aftermarket TB in an actual side by side test. IMO listing of upgrades by performance impact I would place TB's on the far end of the list, you probably gain more hp putting a clean air filter on.

That being said the stock TB seems to get lots of corrosion especially if your injecting meth. This 4yr old BBK TB I use doesn't seem to corrode at all, I just took it off tonight to fit this Snow Performance Injection plate and it's clean like new.

Too bad this Injection plate failed to fit.

Bigger throttle bodies do make a difference with pd blowers because they have to suck air through the tb. I gained hp and tq going from the stock tb to a frpp 62mm on a Whipple. I can't remember the exact amount off hand but it was enough to rule out variations in the test. I did post the results on here about 5 years ago or so.

Where they don't make any difference is with a turbo or centri blower because this type of setup is pushing the air in. I saw this first hand when I sold the frpp tb to a friend with a D1 Procharger. He saw a 3hp gain.

The stock 55mm tb flows 875cfm which should be enough to support any na mod motor setup.

 

[palanza7]

Bigger throttle bodies do make a difference with pd blowers because they have to suck air through the tb. I gained hp and tq going from the stock tb to a frpp 62mm on a Whipple. I can't remember the exact amount off hand but it was enough to rule out variations in the test. I did post the results on here about 5 years ago or so.

Where they don't make any difference is with a turbo or centri blower because this type of setup is pushing the air in. I saw this first hand when I sold the frpp tb to a friend with a D1 Procharger. He saw a 3hp gain.

The stock 55mm tb flows 875cfm which should be enough to support any na mod motor setup.

Yeah I've read tons of supporting info on the gains. I'm strapping a TVS off a 2014 to my 06 GT and spinning it to hell and back to I'm sure I will see a HP gain off of the larger TB than the gt500, just not sure its enough that I want to spend 500+ bucks on a TB. Now if I can just get half that gain porting my own for just some hours of my time, I'll take it lol. Also read the elbow and the entrance to the blower needs widened.

 

[Wild White Pony]

Bigger throttle bodies do make a difference with pd blowers because they have to suck air through the tb. I gained hp and tq going from the stock tb to a frpp 62mm on a Whipple. I can't remember the exact amount off hand but it was enough to rule out variations in the test. I did post the results on here about 5 years ago or so.

Where they don't make any difference is with a turbo or centri blower because this type of setup is pushing the air in. I saw this first hand when I sold the frpp tb to a friend with a D1 Procharger. He saw a 3hp gain.

The stock 55mm tb flows 875cfm which should be enough to support any na mod motor setup.

I've seen the results on NA/Centri/Turbo, and it's worthless like you state, my gain was almost 2hp, I don't know know what results are with the PD blowers but I have heard it's much better than fore mentioned. I think that is a good point for people considering a TB with a PD blower vs the rest.

I see American Muscle has 6 TB's including the stock. The Ford ones don't state hp increases but mention performance increases including throttle response.
The 3 after market ones for sale all claim HP increases between 15-22hp unlike the ford racing ones. Hmmm... ok hopefully they get all for the money.
If you find that performance comparison you had years ago I think that would be a great benchmark to post for the people with the PD's.

 

[travelers]

if anybody has an extra GT500 tb laying around let me know

I have one that came with my Ford Racing Supercharger that I never used. I add the 65mm FRPP one.

It has the electronic already on it. Shoot me a pm if your interested.

 

[Grabber]

BruceH & Wild White Pony - My 05 GT with a Non-IC Vortech picked up over 12 RWHP and 17 RWTQ just by swapping from a stock TB to a GT500 TB and adjusting the map settings in the tune with no added timing or higher octane.

To me, for a $150-$300 piece, that's a decent gain.

 

[Wild White Pony]

BruceH & Wild White Pony - My 05 GT with a Non-IC Vortech picked up over 12 RWHP and 17 RWTQ just by swapping from a stock TB to a GT500 TB and adjusting the map settings in the tune with no added timing or higher octane.

To me, for a $150-$300 piece, that's a decent gain.

Interesting, was it this stock replacement GT500 TB, http://www.americanmuscle.com/gt500-tb-kit-0510gt.html

I used a BBK and gained 2hp I do have an air to air intercooler vs the non with the short travel from blower exit to throttle body.

Biggest gains I've seen have come from removing restrictions from the intake side of the vortech using a filter on inlet or power pipe with filter.

I need to find a stock TB and see if this injection plate fits since it doesn't fit the BBK, I have no problems going back to the stock throttle body as long as the meth is injected afterwards with this plate.

So the GT500 uses a spacer plate, do you remember if that is used to reshape the airflow to the stock manifold or does it just extend? The reason I ask is I'm trying to fit that Snow P injection plate behind a throttle body and from the pic of the GT 500 it looks like it has more clearance on the side for the jet to stick out vs the BBK one I have.

 

[stkjock]

Interesting, what version throttle body did you use and how much are they?

BruceH & Wild White Pony - My 05 GT with a Non-IC Vortech picked up over 12 RWHP and 17 RWTQ just by swapping from a stock TB to a GT500 TB and adjusting the map settings in the tune with no added timing or higher octane.

To me, for a $150-$300 piece, that's a decent gain.

new they are $125 or IIRC from Tasca w/ electronics

 

[Wild White Pony]

new they are $125 or IIRC from Tasca w/ electronics

I missed and fixed within a minute don't count.

AM: $315.00
Tasca: $125.00

 

[Grabber]

Interesting, was it this stock replacement GT500 TB, http://www.americanmuscle.com/gt500-tb-kit-0510gt.html

I used a BBK and gained 2hp I do have an air to air intercooler vs the non with the short travel from blower exit to throttle body.

Biggest gains I've seen have come from removing restrictions from the intake side of the vortech using a filter on inlet or power pipe with filter.

I need to find a stock TB and see if this injection plate fits since it doesn't fit the BBK, I have no problems going back to the stock throttle body as long as the meth is injected afterwards with this plate.

I believe that is the one. I did pay about $350 for the upgrade kit which included the bigger sleeve, adapter plate and the TB with electronics.

Dillon Dollar also claimed a 25 RWHP gain with just a TB on his boosted 3V a while back. That IMHO is very high and somewhat hard to believe.

new they are $125 or IIRC from Tasca w/ electronics

For just the TB, yes. Not for the AM upgrade kit.

 

[Wild White Pony]

I'm going to take a chance on the GT500 TB without the spacer upgrade kit, I want to use this meth plate as the spacer.

I just don't know if the nozzle on the motor side will fit. The BBK TB I have will not fit the nozzle on that side.

I stopped by a local Mustang shop today and put the plate to a Stock TB and it clears, from the pics the the two GT500 and stock are very similar on the motor side.

Stock

GT500

GT500 spacer plate

This Snow Meth plate is probably made by NX as it seems other parts from Snow have NX labeling. I could save some money with just the TB for $125.00 or punt if its not compatible and go stock.

 

[skwerl]

The GT500 TB has a wider bolt pattern than the regular GT.

 

[Wild White Pony]

The GT500 TB has a wider bolt pattern than the regular GT.

Thanks for info

I see how they are drilling the TB out and placing inserts in. Seems you can get a pre drilled GT500 TB from metco. Looks like I'll have to put a small countersinks in the injection plate for alignment.

Nuttin easly.

 

[skwerl]

Also keep in mind the throttle blades are larger and therefore need more clearance as well.

 

[BruceH]

BruceH & Wild White Pony - My 05 GT with a Non-IC Vortech picked up over 12 RWHP and 17 RWTQ just by swapping from a stock TB to a GT500 TB and adjusting the map settings in the tune with no added timing or higher octane.

To me, for a $150-$300 piece, that's a decent gain.

And my buddy who was over 650rwhp saw a 3rwhp gain going from stock to a 62mm FRPP. He was running a D1 Procharger, same tune except for the tb changes, same fuel, same dyno, same weather correction (same day too).

 

[Grabber]

And my buddy who was over 650rwhp saw a 3rwhp gain going from stock to a 62mm FRPP. He was running a D1 Procharger, same tune except for the tb changes, same fuel, same dyno, same weather correction (same day too).

Everyone has a buddy

Point in case, my car was living proof that TB gains can be there. Every car is different, every blower setup is different, etc.

FWIW - I had my car dyno'd on the stock TB in 90+ degrees. Later on, with the GT500 TB and a different O/R H (had an O/R H beforehand) it was about 70 degrees. That may make a difference.

 

[stkjock]

FWIW - I had my car dyno'd on the stock TB in 90+ degrees. Later on, with the GT500 TB and a different O/R H (had an O/R H beforehand) it was about 70 degrees. That may make a difference.

ya think.............

TBs have proved to show gains on PD blowers much more so than on Centri's.


the key is, is the TB a restriction or not to the flow that power adder can put out.

 

[Grabber]

ya think.............

TBs have proved to show gains on PB blowers much more so than on Centri's.


the key is, is the TB a restriction or not to the flow that power adder can put out.

Yup, I thunk it Dave.

I'm sure the TB was only good for .5 HP and .3 TQ and the rest was 20 degree lower temps.

OK, OK, I confess..... I had the BTD.