Dyno Results

[dsmith658]

I posted this in another forum too but wanted to get you guys opinion.

Mods:
Aluminator 11:1
TVS 2.3L 69mm Pulley
E85
VMP twin 67mm and VMP Elbow port matched blower
JLT123MM intake
ID 1000
Jpc fuel system dual pump
SW Longtubes
Over axle pipes from Borla

1) I am reading 10.0 afr all the time. The tuner says the stock o2s cannot read low enough for the e85. This seems weird to me.

2) seat of the pants feel is not much more than my phase 3 setup on 93



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[BruceH]

View attachment 55258

I posted this in another forum too but wanted to get you guys opinion.

Mods:
Aluminator 11:1
TVS 2.3L 69mm Pulley
E85
VMP twin 67mm and VMP Elbow port matched blower
JLT123MM intake
ID 1000
Jpc fuel system dual pump
SW Longtubes
Over axle pipes from Borla

1) I am reading 10.0 afr all the time. The tuner says the stock o2s cannot read low enough for the e85. This seems weird to me.

2) seat of the pants feel is not much more than my phase 3 setup on 93



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It makes no sense because the stock o2 sensors should be reading in lambda and converting to gasoline afr. Commanded lambda should be about the same for both fuels. Because of this they should be showing the same afr as when you run gasoline. At least that's how my aftermarket wideband works.

Hopefully your tuner understands that he's tuning by commanding lambda and reading in gasoline afr even when using E85. He would have to know.

 

[JeremyH]

That's how my tuner does it as well in lambda and my wideband reads as normal.

 

[dsmith658]

It makes no sense because the stock o2 sensors should be reading in lambda and converting to gasoline afr. Commanded lambda should be about the same for both fuels. Because of this they should be showing the same afr as when you run gasoline. At least that's how my aftermarket wideband works.

Hopefully your tuner understands that he's tuning by commanding lambda and reading in gasoline afr even when using E85. He would have to know.

I have had a frustrating time trying to get this car tuned in houston. It look me less time to do my motor swap and all my mods than its taken so far to get a tune.



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[weather man]

You are pig rich.

 

[dsmith658]

What should I be seeing for afr? Should it be re scaled to read like gas (14 stoic and 11ish wot?)

Tuner says it should be below 10 which is what I guess it is all over the place.

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[weather man]

What should I be seeing for afr? Should it be re scaled to read like gas (14 stoic and 11ish wot?)

Tuner says it should be below 10 which is what I guess it is all over the place.

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Yeah, stoic when cruising and high 10's to 11ish WOT

 

[D98GT]

Who is tuning the car?

Please take my advice and travel the hour and a half to Triangle Speed Shop if you aren't letting a reputable tuner remote log it. I promise you it'll be worth it and will likely save you a lot of trouble by not letting someone learn on your car.

 

[BruceH]

What should I be seeing for afr? Should it be re scaled to read like gas (14 stoic and 11ish wot?)

Tuner says it should be below 10 which is what I guess it is all over the place.

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o2 sensors only read in lambda. 1 lambda is stoichiometric for the fuel. An example would be 14.64 for gasoline, 14.1 for e10 and 9.86 for e85.

The lambda value is usually converted to read 14.64 for 1 lambda on American wideband gauges.

The one thing I don't know is how it's converted for the 5.0 factory widebands. I highly doubt it is somehow knowing to convert 1 lambda to the e85 stoich for display purposes but I'm not 100% sure. It would be possible to have the stoichiometric value in the fuel parameters for the tune converted for display purposes.

No matter what 1 lambda is readable by a factory wideband. If it couldn't read it then you would have to run open loop all the time which would be like pre o2 sensor carburetor days.

Did you have a tailpipe sniffer during the dyno session? If so what did it read?

 

[05stroker]

Who is tuning the car?

Please take my advice and travel the hour and a half to Triangle Speed Shop if you aren't letting a reputable tuner remote log it. I promise you it'll be worth it and will likely save you a lot of trouble by not letting someone learn on your car.

I'm with Maddox, take a short trip to TSS and get it on there dyno. Either that or get with LITO and remote tune it.

 

[Pentalab]

I'm with Maddox, take a short trip to TSS and get it on there dyno. Either that or get with LITO and remote tune it.

Lito doesn't tune coyote /aluminator...too bad.

 

[05stroker]

Lito doesn't tune coyote /aluminator...too bad.

I keep forgetting about that. Lol

Take the drive to TSS then. It's a 1 1/2 hr drive. I drove that far to work and home for over 15 yrs.

 

[dsmith658]

Lito doesn't tune coyote /aluminator...too bad.

Oh my Jesus I wish Lito tuned coyotes. This would have been an easy decision for me. He tuned my 3V turbo, and during the process I was thinking "wow that was easy". Wanna learn on my car lito???

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[dsmith658]

o2 sensors only read in lambda. 1 lambda is stoichiometric for the fuel. An example would be 14.64 for gasoline, 14.1 for e10 and 9.86 for e85.

The lambda value is usually converted to read 14.64 for 1 lambda on American wideband gauges.

The one thing I don't know is how it's converted for the 5.0 factory widebands. I highly doubt it is somehow knowing to convert 1 lambda to the e85 stoich for display purposes but I'm not 100% sure. It would be possible to have the stoichiometric value in the fuel parameters for the tune converted for display purposes.

No matter what 1 lambda is readable by a factory wideband. If it couldn't read it then you would have to run open loop all the time which would be like pre o2 sensor carburetor days.

Did you have a tailpipe sniffer during the dyno session? If so what did it read?

I have an ngauge and I think I can display lambda. What should I be looking for as far as lambda for stoich and wot? I apologize in advance for my ignorance on the subject with e85!

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[Stephen31201]

I just now learned that Lito doesn't do Coyote's but he did my switch. I picked up 50rwhp and a ton of torque on the low end with just the switch and more timing at only 10psi (470rwhp now). My AFR is around 12ish at WOT. My gauge reads Lambda so my numbers are relative the same as 93. Do you have an AFR gauge installed?

 

[UltraKla$$ic]

I have an ngauge and I think I can display lambda. What should I be looking for as far as lambda for stoich and wot? I apologize in advance for my ignorance on the subject with e85!

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Who's tuning it? Is Triangle Speed Shop in Orange not an option?? Get Lund to remote tune it.

 

[BruceH]

I have an ngauge and I think I can display lambda. What should I be looking for as far as lambda for stoich and wot? I apologize in advance for my ignorance on the subject with e85!

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It would depend on what the tune calls for at wot. Stoich is 1.0 no matter what the fuel. Usually a forced induction car is tuned for a wot gas afr of 11.0 - 12.0 depending on factors like matched injectors, amount of boost, etc.

A gas afr of 11.0 - 12.0 would be lambda .75 to .82. The formula is pretty simple. Just divide 14.64 by the ratio you are looking for. An example would be 14.64 / 12.0 = .8196. When it comes to the fuel table in the tune it's all in lambda. The afr gauge is reading lambda and the ecu uses lambda. For some reason American afr gauges always display in pure gasoline representations of lambda which is 14.64 for 1.0 lambda. It would be a whole lot easier and make more sense if they displayed lambda but we have to work with what we have.

 

[lskiller]

Actually, most 93 w/10% ethanol has a stoich closer to 14.10. If it's exactly E10, it's 14.08. 14.64 is an old number that's thrown around but not really accurate.

I don't know who the tuner is but I'd be a bit wary if they think that E85 affects how the O2 reads - it doesn't. It reads Lambda. I have run E85 for several years and there is no trickeration involved in getting the fueling straight. Same as any other fuel.

 

[dsmith658]

What do e85 users see on the dash for afr for e85 for both idle and wot? This is what I want to know. Surely it can't be bottomed out all the time at 10.0.

My lambda reads 1.0 at idle, and around 1.0 at part throttle. I didn't see it change much with more throttle.

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[JUSTA3V]

Mine reads the same