Bad rev hangs

[sgfreak96]

Long story short
>had a tune on the car when I bought it
>Car ran badly at cold start, and ran great when warm
>Car got like 5-10mpgs
>Had ford dealer remove tune from car, after buying SCT X4
>SCTX4 preloaded tunes ran awful on the car

Have been tuning the car with a buddy who uses HP tuners. Tunes are doing ok, but the revs hang horribly if it's above like 2k. It's almost like the higher revs hang longer.

Messaged previous owner and asked about every modification done to the car, so I could tune it properly. He said, "there might be a mild cam in it." The most vague thing I've ever heard, doesn't know what brand they would be if they were in.

Car has no choppy idle at all like you'd expect from upgraded camshafts. However the rev hang we cannot get to disappear.

My question is this:
1. How can I tell what cams my car has, stock, or upgrade? Is there a simple way to do this, or is this basically impossible
2. What can we change in the tune were making, that would improve the driving IF there were camshafts? For example, are there parameters that get adjusted for upgraded camshafts, that we could slightly tweak from stock to see if we notice any improvements/differences of the sort?

Sorry for being so clueless, this car was possibly the dumbest purchase of my life. The seller did not disclose nearly half of all the modifications done to it at the time of sale, and I'm just a dumb kid who liked the car.

Comment answers to Q's 1 and 2 below!!!

 

[skwerl]

1- Pull a valve cover and look for numbers on the cam?
2- Use a tuner who is familiar with and has lots of experience with modular Fords, both naturally aspirated and forced induction. The two best tuners I know (and have experience with) are Justin at VMP and Lito of TuDyno (here on the forum).

 

[sgfreak96]

1- Pull a valve cover and look for numbers on the cam?
2- Use a tuner who is familiar with and has lots of experience with modular Fords, both naturally aspirated and forced induction. The two best tuners I know (and have experience with) are Justin at VMP and Lito of TuDyno (here on the forum).

Ok I was not sure if the cams would have any markings on them or not. Will definitely try this. My friend who's tuning it did powertrain diagnostics for ford and John Deere, and currently has tuned his 2011 v6. He tuned it NA and now it's procharged and he's tuned it as well. The car is an animal.

 

[skwerl]

I admittedly know absolutely nothing about tuning. But I recall when I had a throttle hanging issue once with a tune that my tuner (Justin) told me it was a dashpot setting adjustment? Anyway, based on what I told him on the phone he emailed me a revised tune and fixed the issue.

 

[sgfreak96]

I admittedly know absolutely nothing about tuning. But I recall when I had a throttle hanging issue once with a tune that my tuner (Justin) told me it was a dashpot setting adjustment? Anyway, based on what I told him on the phone he emailed me a revised tune and fixed the issue.

Thanks for the info, going to research the dashpot settings!

 

[stkjock]

I admittedly know absolutely nothing about tuning. But I recall when I had a throttle hanging issue once with a tune that my tuner (Justin) told me it was a dashpot setting adjustment? Anyway, based on what I told him on the phone he emailed me a revised tune and fixed the issue.

Brian is 100% right. hanging RPM is the dashpot setting

 

[rocky61201]

For what's it's worth my car behaves in the same manner whenever the throttle body gets dirty and needs a cleaning. Easy fix if that solves it. I have to clean mine about 2-3 times a year.

 

[CJ-]

For what's it's worth my car behaves in the same manner whenever the throttle body gets dirty and needs a cleaning. Easy fix if that solves it. I have to clean mine about 2-3 times a year.

same here, except a TB cleaning made mine worse and made the idle higher. I found out that someone who worked on the car before i owned it had tightened the idle set screw, I unscrewed it about 1/2 to 3/4th of a turn and the idle immediately returned to the stock idle setting and the hanging rev went away.

 

[BruceH]

same here, except a TB cleaning made mine worse and made the idle higher. I found out that someone who worked on the car before i owned it had tightened the idle set screw, I unscrewed it about 1/2 to 3/4th of a turn and the idle immediately returned to the stock idle setting and the hanging rev went away.

Idle is electronically controlled. What did you adjust?

 

[CJ-]

Idle is electronically controlled. What did you adjust?

There is a set screw, that dark gray stud bolt at the top right hand side of the throttle body. I know its intended use is to get the correct/recommended voltage or resistance (i forget which it is) out of the sensor on the TB. You can and people do turn that screw when they have idle issues and dont know its intended use... however if you tighten that screw which opens the butterfly valves, your idle will rise and your idle will hang and slowly return to idle speed.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

As mentioned first make sure the TB is clean. Then follow SKWERL's advise on tuners. I will add to that list Ken Bjonnes at Palm Beach Dyno who I know personally and have used on three vehicles in the past when he was here locally in my area.

 

[lito]

There is a set screw, that dark gray stud bolt at the top right hand side of the throttle body. I know its intended use is to get the correct/recommended voltage or resistance (i forget which it is) out of the sensor on the TB. You can and people do turn that screw when they have idle issues and dont know its intended use... however if you tighten that screw which opens the butterfly valves, your idle will rise and your idle will hang and slowly return to idle speed.

For future references:

PLEASE DO NOT EVER ADJUST THIS SCREW (on Ford throttle bodies).

 

[CJ-]

For future references:

PLEASE DO NOT EVER ADJUST THIS SCREW (on Ford throttle bodies).

Lito is correct

 

[lito]

Lito is correct, I should have been more specific and detailed... i do not recommend indiscriminately turning that screw.

Follow the instructions in the link below to check your Voltage read out from your TPS in order to tell if that bolt i mentioned above has been adjusted outside of factory specs.

http://www.americanmuscle.com/bbk-62mm-throttle-body-05gt-cust-install.html

No, you just simply don't do this with a stock TB, the screw is not serviceable, quite probably if you touch you will break it and unless you get very fancy, you lost your throttle body.

You can do that with the BBK but not with the stock one.

 

[lito]

Please delete

 

[CJ-]

Please delete

Will do, just for the record, I did this to my factory TB, nothing fancy at all, just followed the directions and my hanging revs and high idle issues were solved.

Attached is a image of the adjustment side of a stock S197 TB where you can clearly see the threaded bolt that is used to set the correct voltage on the TPS. I dont understand why Ford would say its not serviceable if in fact it was in my case...

 

[lito]

Will do, just for the record, I did this to my factory TB, nothing fancy at all, just followed the directions and my hanging revs and high idle issues were solved.

You should play the lottery then, you may get the winning ticket with your luck.

All the people I've seen do this, broke the screw.

This comes set at manufacturing time, no need to mess with it.

Proper tuning will correct everything.

 

[CJ-]

You should play the lottery then, you may get the winning ticket with your luck.

All the people I've seen do this, broke the screw.

This comes set at manufacturing time, no need to mess with it.

Proper tuning will correct everything.

AHHH i see your point... I can see how it could break, when i was adjusting mine, i did feel that the bolt wanted to bind, guess i am lucky lol

 

[sgfreak96]

Wow, did not think I'd get this many replies. Appreciate all the knowledge and info you guys, very helpful! I don't plan on touching that screw either! Though I have a BBK twin 62, I'll just be taking it off and cleaning it. Dashpot settings WILL be played with next tune! Also does anyone know any more specifics on dashpot?

 

[redfirepearlgt]

Wow, did not think I'd get this many replies. Appreciate all the knowledge and info you guys, very helpful! I don't plan on touching that screw either! Though I have a BBK twin 62, I'll just be taking it off and cleaning it. Dashpot settings WILL be played with next tune! Also does anyone know any more specifics on dashpot?

Back up the ponys. Did the BBK TB get added and now you are trying to tune for it? The BBK was known for issues just as you are describing back in the early days when it first hit the market. I was looking into one but the forums were lit up about this TB and that exact same issue. Because of the need to transfer the motor controller over I don't know if it was buyer induced error in assembly due to inexperience, failure to read the instructions, poor/missing direction on the motor swap by BBK, or inferior quality workmanship. But regardless the TB became the nemesis for BBK which had been the standard in mechanical TB's for years prior to that. They many have resolved the issues as the unit is still on the market, but it is alwasy nice to provide ALL of the facts on a trouble shooting problem and not just some. Anything less is the same as spitting into the wind.

Many who went through this put their factory TB back on and the problem went away.

BBK may have resolved this issue. But I have not found a reputable tuner peddling them. Most push the FRPP unit because it is very tune friendly but does come at a cost.

Good luck. Sorry to sound like such a downer.