Kenny Brown Performance cars and coffee

[Pentalab]

On a side note, are tracks being shut down ?
Well, I have a watts link + toilet paper, so I'm set..for now.

 

[JJ427R]

On a side note, are tracks being shut down ?

As of now a couple I know of are still on but guessing that could change like everything else is , NASA is still on for NCM Motorsports Park 3/28-3/29 and Northwoods Shelby at Road America 4/25-4/26 (that one is still a ways out though)

 

[Norm Peterson]

In my mailbox this afternoon . . .

NJMP has closed until further notice in accordance with Gov. Murphy's executive order.

AutoInterests (running events at Mid-Ohio, PittRace, GingerMan, Nelson Ledges, Summit Point & NCM) have not yet suspended registrations, hoping for improvements in the situation over the next 6 weeks.


Norm

 

[Pentalab]

Here's the minute by minute updates.

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-16-20-intl-hnk/index.html

 

[JJ427R]

Anyone who wants to watch replays of Kenny Brown Performance Cars and Coffee you can see them on his you tube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuRWD4UtXJdPFw7ROwL2v5UIRJ0l3bxWY

Todays show included the following:

In this Episode of CARS & COFFEE, Kenny Shared These HOT Topics:

· HOW TO: Adjust Camber At The Track


· TECH: How to Get More Corner Exit Speed – Street & Track


· SHOW & TELL: Quartermaster Clutch & Bellhousing


· QUICK HITTERS: Questions from Speed Therapy Society Members


· LIVE Q&A: Kenny Answers Questions LIVE from viewers

 

[Norm Peterson]

Better than his early episodes, but still rambles too much and is harder to follow than it should be .

He had great opportunities . . . like suggesting more positive means of repeating camber settings than lines with a felt marker and a little introduction to the notion of setting camber to best suit your normal driving rather than just a flat -1° to -1.25° statement. He was close enough just getting into street vs track taking different settings and should have finished up by extending that to mild vs enthusiastic street driving still needing slightly different settings. Not to mention that he completely overlooked the effect on toe when changing camber between street and track settings. Speaking of toe . . . I'm not a fan of toe out on the street (can make for needlessly busy steering for no real benefit), and if you start with toe out in your street setting and move to your track camber you're likely to end up with too much toe out.

I was really hoping to get something out of the corner exit speed segment. Anything.

Something he said somewhere indicated to me at least that he's still more of a SN95/Foxbody guy.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

I've been watching KB's video of his K member (the Super-Grip front/AGS stuff) primarily because it came up rather indirectly in a discussion elsewhere. While he still drifts off the main topic a bit, he's much more composed which makes it far easier to follow than anything I've seen yet in this C&C series. It shows what he can do, given the right circumstances.

Perhaps he needs to record everything but the Q&A beforehand, which ought to cut down on the rambling. Take a question or two after each prerecorded segment, fine. but save most of that stuff for last.


Norm

 

[JJ427R]

Hope you got some useful info off it. Guess it doesn't really bother me it's not rehearsed or scripted, it's just him there being himself. At least he's out there doing it and offering good information free of charge! I'm not going to be too critical of that! If he was charging money for it, then it's a different story.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Hope you got some useful info off it. Guess it doesn't really bother me it's not rehearsed or scripted, it's just him there being himself. At least he's out there doing it and offering good information free of charge! I'm not going to be too critical of that! If he was charging money for it, then it's a different story.

Some. But because I have some idea what to look for, I picked up on at least one thing he never came close to mentioning. I'm guessing that he never intended to go there.


I'm told elsewhere that today he spent some time talking about how his setup is a package and requires stiffer springs shocks, where his listing of spring and shock rates needing to be stiffer is the only real reason to avoid shopping for suspension parts from different manufacturers.

I haven't seen it yet, so I don't know what (if any) spring rates he may have been talking about using. Of course, when you pick KB's whole kit, like with anybody else's full kit you're stuck with somebody else's preferences in handling behavior, for their envisioned levels of driving, which may or may not match your own . . .


Norm

 

[JJ427R]

He tries to match components that work well together. He stated from the start of this he's just trying to keep people form buying components that don't work well together and making some of the same mistakes he has over the last 40+years of doing this. How many suspension threads do we see on here where people do upgrades or change components completely and end up with noises or don't like the feel of something?

His kits are by no means cheap that's for sure. If I remember correctly his front springs are 850lb., believe he also uses 650 depending on the track. Believe stock springs are 250??? too lazy this am to dig out my notes.....

 

[Norm Peterson]

As far as I've been able to find out, all regular production S197 springs are under 200 lb/in. Early S197 cars aren't even 150 at either end.

You could crib from the S550 GT350R as far as finding reasonably suitable spring rates for a car driven daily during the weel and up to moderately serious HPDE on the weekends or at SCCA's TNiA. Basically the 350R spring rates work out to around 250 lb/in at the wheel, which with our stick axles would be close enough to where BMR's 'Handling Springs' for the 2008-ish GT500 are (260f, 220r).

650 (around 600 at the wheel) and up is strictly coilover territory, and there's no need to be running that much until you're climbing toward the pointy end of some timed competition series. Your car should be caged and trailered at that point, probably with a fire suppression system, and you should be wearing a fire suit (and have a HANS of some sort not as an option). That's what really goes together and it's when street use is no longer a consideration.

KB is really building a track-only kind of car. Not a performance street car or even a dual-purpose DD/HPDE car. I'm not saying he's wrong to use those rates, but one needs to understand what he's intending them for.


Norm

 

[Racer47]

Norm you are way out of your knowledge range both with these spring rates requiring cages etc and your false assumptions about your overstretched tires.

 

[Juice]

Currently looking at tubular Ks. Happen to come across KBs. It looks weak and light to me. Definitely wont be buying it.

Looks like the best one out there is MM. And its OOS, lol, figures.
Any site vendora have one in stock?

 

[JJ427R]

KB is really building a track-only kind of car. Not a performance street car or even a dual-purpose DD/HPDE car. I'm not saying he's wrong to use those rates, but one needs to understand what he's intending them for.

He specifies in the videos different springs for different setups such as street, street track, full track? Did you not see that? He actually talked about that quite a bit? That is why he offers those different options for purchase as well. He has become a big believer in the JRZ stuff and he explains that in the videos as well. He also mentioned he is not done designing suspension for these cars and is currently working on something new.
Will I be buying any of it, probably not. Bit pricey for me. It is impressive looking stuff though.

Street Performance Coil over Kit
https://kennybrown.com/collections/...rformance-coil-over-kit-for-2005-2014-mustang

Street/Track
https://kennybrown.com/collections/...-kit-for-2005-2014-mustang-boss-302-and-gt500

Full Track he has 4 different kits and they are not cheap!!!!
https://kennybrown.com/collections/...-kit-for-2005-2014-mustang-boss-302-and-gt500
https://kennybrown.com/collections/...-kit-for-2005-2014-mustang-boss-302-and-gt500
https://kennybrown.com/collections/...-kit-for-2005-2014-mustang-boss-302-and-gt500
https://kennybrown.com/collections/...-kit-for-2005-2014-mustang-boss-302-and-gt500

 

[Norm Peterson]

Norm you are way out of your knowledge range both with these spring rates requiring cages etc and your false assumptions about your overstretched tires.

Really? Where are you finding roads good enough to where a 2.5Hz ride frequency is reasonable for street driving?


Over-stretched - we are talking about street tires here - would be somewhere outside Tire & Rim guidelines. Not at the T&RA upper recommended limit unless having the commonly preferred appearance is too important or the rules are set up to intentionally discourage you from running wheels that wide.

Keep in mind that there almost certainly is some conservatism built into those T&RA guidelines, that there is a little headroom on either the wide end or the narrow end for most sizes. That's the essence of what I was told by a real tire engineer.


Norm

 

[JJ427R]

Forgot to mention this.
THE SPRING AND SHOCK PACKAGES WE OFFER are CUSTOM VALVE to Kenny’s specifications AND BUILT to order. SPRING RATES Are chosen by Kenny for your individual APPLICATION, and adjustable Shocks ARRIVE preset by Kenny along with his shock tuning guide and ARE ONLY AVAILABLE THROUGH KENNY BROWN.

 

[Norm Peterson]

He specifies in the videos different springs for different setups such as street, street track, full track? Did you not see that? He actually talked about that quite a bit? That is why he offers those different options for purchase as well. He has become a big believer in the JRZ stuff and he explains that as in the videos as well. He also mentioned he is not done designing suspension for these cars and is currently working on something new.
Will I be buying any of it, probably not. Bit pricey for me.

Haven't had time to watch his latest video. You know my non-fb status, but I've at least been given a YT link that I'll get around to watching at some point.

In his online catalog he never even hints at what the ranges of spring rates might be for any of those situations. As secondhand information, I think the number '650' might have been mentioned, but I'm not sure in what context.

"SPRING RATES ARE CHOSEN BY KENNY FOR YOUR INDIVIDUAL APPLICATION" is all I'm seeing on KB's catalog pages.


High-end coilovers are out of my league as well. Definite overkill for any level of driving I see myself getting seriously involved in at this stage of my life (I'll be 73 before the year is out).


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Forgot to mention this.
THE SPRING AND SHOCK PACKAGES WE OFFER are CUSTOM VALVE to Kenny’s specifications AND BUILT to order. SPRING RATES Are chosen by Kenny for your individual APPLICATION, and adjustable Shocks ARRIVE preset by Kenny along with his shock tuning guide and ARE ONLY AVAILABLE THROUGH KENNY BROWN.

Exactly what I found for all six of those packages about the time you posted the above. I just got interrupted a few times before hitting the 'submit' button.

Have to admit, he's a bit stingy with the information. Maybe that's the right approach for a lot of his customers who are content to bolt things on their car and just go drive it, but it's too much of a "do this because I said so" for somebody like me who wants to actually understand what he's got going on.


Norm

 

[JJ427R]

Have to admit, he's a bit stingy with the information. Maybe that's the right approach for a lot of his customers who are content to bolt things on their car and just go drive it, but it's too much of a "do this because I said so" for somebody like me who wants to actually understand what he's got going on.

How many other vendors do you see give those numbers? None that I know of. I looked at Eibach for my 2010 and all they show is ride height. Believe you have to dig deep into tech info to get any spring rates.

Example here is the Eibach Sportline kit for my 2010. No tech specs at all, only how much it drops the car.
https://eibach.com/us/875/4.10135-FORD-Mustang-sportline-kit

 

[Norm Peterson]

How many other vendors do you see give those numbers? None that I know of. I looked at Eibach for my 2010 and all they show is ride height. Believe you have to dig deep into tech info to get any spring rates.

Example here is the Eibach Sportline kit for my 2010. No tech specs at all, only how much it drops the car.
https://eibach.com/us/875/4.10135-FORD-Mustang-sportline-kit

Unfortunately for some of us, ride height/amount lowered is all that most people care about. Or even know about. So that's typically all we get.

FWIW, somebody was able to find spring rates for all of these springs, many years ago. And I had no trouble finding out directly from Sam Strano what the Vogtland spring rates were (working rates, not just max).

Stock
2011/2012 Base GT
2011/2012 Brembo Pkg
2012 Boss (non Laguna Seca)
2012 Boss Laguna Seca
BMR (four different sets)
Eibach Pro-kit
Eibach Sportline
H&R Super Sport
H&R Race
RTR
SR (American Muscle)
Steeda Boss 302
Steeda Competition
Steeda Sport
Steeda Ultra-lite
Tein H-Tech
Tein V-Tech
Vogtland (Sam)
Vogtland Leveling (Sam)


Norm