HELP. Flagged by BAR Nazi's.

[Sunne55]

Hey guys,

I'm sure it's been covered already but I can't find the thread. I have a factory built '06 stage 3, with an open box intake. I bought it in CO where there are minimal smog nazi's but now I've moved back to CA and found out that there's a flag on my file from the previous owner. I took it to the Ref and he's complaining about the open box intake, so I'm looking for the closed box that came originally with this build so that I can switch them out, pass smog and then put the open box back on (since my hot girl card got me nowhere at my Ref appointment). Ha. Anyway....

First question: is there any way around this? I've researched all the EO's but I keep hitting expensive roadblocks.
Second question: Does anyone have the original closed box for the ROUSHcharged setup that they could sell to me? Seems like this might be my only option. Or does anyone know if there are junkyards specializing in wrecked Roush/Saleen, etc.?

Thanks for reading, any help is appreciated.

Sunne

 

[AHaze]

Didn't the supercharged 3V Roush cars come with the stock air box?

 

[Sunne55]

Didn't the supercharged 3V Roush cars come with the stock air box?
View attachment 116939

From what I've researched, the lower housing of the box is stock, but the lid is custom molded to fit a larger filter; that's the part I'm having the hardest time with.

 

[Juice]

I have a complete 4.0 box.
Its not going to be the same, the sc likely has a larger maf.

 

[JC SSP]

Sunne55 try to see if a stock GT lid will work so you can pass emissions (I hope a retune is not required). If Roush doesn’t have it, check the usual eBay, OfferUp, Craigslist and facebook marketplace. If worse comes to worse, maybe have someone 3D print one… there has to be someone with the same setup on this forum that could provide the specs (I know that’s a stretch).

I also commend you on taking care of the elderly parents… definitely not easy.

 

[Sunne55]

I have a complete 4.0 box.
Its not going to be the same, the sc likely has a larger maf.

Yep, you're right. Besides the lid being larger for the larger filter, the maf is different too. Ugh. Well, thanks anyway.

 

[Sunne55]

Sunne55 try to see if a stock GT lid will work so you can pass emissions (I hope a retune is not required). If Roush doesn’t have it, check the usual eBay, OfferUp, Craigslist and facebook marketplace. If worse comes to worse, maybe have someone 3D print one… there has to be someone with the same setup on this forum that could provide the specs (I know that’s a stretch).

I also commend you on taking care of the elderly parents… definitely not easy.

Hey thanks for that. I'm an only child, and so it's up to me to see that their last years are as stress-free as possible.

I think that might be the way I go, but I'm almost positive it'll need a retune - so it's the last resort. If I could just find the roushcharged lid, then I think I could keep the same tune but damn if these things aren't impossible to find. I'm still trying to find an original left rear exhaust tip; I lost it on the freeway last summer...ugh, the things I do for the love of this car.

Thank you for your advice

 

[07 Boss]

Can't you just get a CARB approved intake? Or am I being too simple?

 

[86GT351]

Can't you just get a CARB approved intake? Or am I being too simple?

I think the issue with that is being supercharged ans somehow switching CAI might change driveability. You never know.

Closed Air Box (Sealed)
A closed system features an air filter completely enclosed in a housing that pulls cool, dense air from outside the engine bay. [1]

• Pros: Best at preventing heat soak. Keeps Intake Air Temperatures (IATs) low, which maintains maximum power during spirited driving, stop-and-go traffic, and hot weather. [1, 2, 3]
• Cons: Restricts sound (quieter than open boxes) and can sometimes restrict airflow if the airbox is poorly designed or too small. They are also generally more expensive. [1, 2, 3]

Open Air Box
An open intake features a filter exposed directly in the engine bay, usually shielded by a metal or plastic plate that rests near the bottom of the hood. [1, 2, 3]

• Pros: Unlocks aggressive, loud "whooshing" and induction noises. They usually flow more freely without the physical constraints of a lid and are often cheaper. [1, 2, 3]
• Cons: Highly susceptible to sucking in hot, ambient under-hood air when the vehicle is stationary or moving slowly, which can negatively affect power output. [1, 2]

Based on the above, It can and most likely change driveability as IAT temps drop

It also appears from doing a quick search that nobody offers a closed style intake for a Supercharged S197 Mustang any longer

 

[GriffX]

I would get a stock filter box and try to connect it with the Roush part. After that I would do a long test drive to learn the new different air flow, no WOT, no fast stepping on the throttle. If you have luck, the different flow is still in the range of the self-adaptation of the ECU.

 

[Miker]

Hey thanks for that. I'm an only child, and so it's up to me to see that their last years are as stress-free as possible.

I think that might be the way I go, but I'm almost positive it'll need a retune - so it's the last resort. If I could just find the roushcharged lid, then I think I could keep the same tune but damn if these things aren't impossible to find. I'm still trying to find an original left rear exhaust tip; I lost it on the freeway last summer...ugh, the things I do for the love of this car.

Thank you for your advice

Did they even get to plugging into the OBD port or not? One thing to verify before you take it back is that it has whatever tune it came with from Roush. It is tied to the vin number and any change from that tune will red flag the car. So any closed intake you find will need to run on that tune.
Open airboxes aren't sending us back to 60s pollution. They just have to draw the line somewhere and the easiest way for the government is just to say zero modifications to tune and intake.

 

[Sunne55]

Can't you just get a CARB approved intake? Or am I being too simple?

I wish I could. But the EO attached to my build dictates the closed box. There is an EO for a CAI but it's only for non-supercharged Mustangs. Ugh.

 

[Sunne55]

I think the issue with that is being supercharged ans somehow switching CAI might change driveability. You never know.

Closed Air Box (Sealed)
A closed system features an air filter completely enclosed in a housing that pulls cool, dense air from outside the engine bay. [1]

• Pros: Best at preventing heat soak. Keeps Intake Air Temperatures (IATs) low, which maintains maximum power during spirited driving, stop-and-go traffic, and hot weather. [1, 2, 3]
• Cons: Restricts sound (quieter than open boxes) and can sometimes restrict airflow if the airbox is poorly designed or too small. They are also generally more expensive. [1, 2, 3]

Open Air Box
An open intake features a filter exposed directly in the engine bay, usually shielded by a metal or plastic plate that rests near the bottom of the hood. [1, 2, 3]

• Pros: Unlocks aggressive, loud "whooshing" and induction noises. They usually flow more freely without the physical constraints of a lid and are often cheaper. [1, 2, 3]
• Cons: Highly susceptible to sucking in hot, ambient under-hood air when the vehicle is stationary or moving slowly, which can negatively affect power output. [1, 2]

Based on the above, It can and most likely change driveability as IAT temps drop

It also appears from doing a quick search that nobody offers a closed style intake for a Supercharged S197 Mustang any longer

The driveability will definitely be affected if I used it long term; but I just want to change it out, run it, then take it in to get smogged, pass the smog and then I'll change it back and do it all over again the next time I have to get it smogged. Open box is always favorable in my opinion.

 

[Sunne55]

Did they even get to plugging into the OBD port or not? One thing to verify before you take it back is that it has whatever tune it came with from Roush. It is tied to the vin number and any change from that tune will red flag the car. So any closed intake you find will need to run on that tune.
Open airboxes aren't sending us back to 60s pollution. They just have to draw the line somewhere and the easiest way for the government is just to say zero modifications to tune and intake.

They did plug it in but I'd cleared a code that morning so it hadn't had time to run properly yet, the Ref tech is a moron and didn't even think to mention what it meant, he just said "oh, your computer hasn't synced lately". I have a tiny evap leak somewhere, I think it's the gas cap but who knows, I can't afford a smoke test on it right now. I'll start with the closed box and then go from there; at least I can keep getting extensions from the Ref and the DMV while I try to resolve this mess. Thanks for all your help

 

[JC SSP]

Is this the intake you have?

 

[cavero]

You sure that Roush Stage 3 cars didn't come with the factory airbox?

I was arguing with Google AI and while it was shaky at best citing things like "check the installation manual, it says to retain the factory airbox" and "the open air filter was an optional upgrade that included a PCM flash" (couldn't find the actual sources it was supposedly quoting), it did have one interesting point:

AI Overloard
Proof 1: The CARB Executive Order Component List
In California, a vehicle's emissions legality under a visual inspection is dictated entirely by its Executive Order (EO). Because the 2006 Roush Stage 3 was sold as a completed, emissions-legal vehicle by a specialty manufacturer, it was certified under CARB EO A-344-0005.

• How this proves it: Look at the official Engine Family listed on that EO: 6RIRO185GAK. Under California law, when a manufacturer certifies an engine family with a supercharger as standard equipment, any component not explicitly modified or replaced in the certification must remain the original OEM configuration.
• Because Roush did not certify a custom enclosed airbox under this EO, the vehicle legally defaults to the standard Ford enclosed air cleaner assembly to match its certified emissions profile. If it has an open element without its own secondary CARB EO sticker, it violates the vehicle's original certification.

I did a little more arguing with the AI and it pointed me at the manual (link below) for the CAI upgrade kit, which does specifically say on Page 10:

4. Install the Rubber Grommets (previously removed from the factory airbox) into the holes locatedbeneath the Airbox, rearward of the ABS module in the inner fender well.

Here's the link to the manual:

https://lib.americanmuscle.com/files/69118.pdf

It notes that this if for all cars with the M90 kit, to include Stage 3 factory cars:

Applications:
2005-09 Ford Mustang GT with 3 Valve 4.6L engine equipped with ROUSH M90 ROUSHchargerKit. This includes all Stage 3, Black Jack 427R, 428R and 429R models. This also includesvehicles upfitted with a Retail ROUSHCharger Kit.

The manual also talks about the process for sending your PCM in to Roush to get it reflashed for the larger diameter intake.

 

[stkjock]

let's keep tech on topic, posts moved to another thread, feel free to light up your opinions in the pitstop

https://www.s197forum.com/threads/california-bash-debate-moved-from-tech.155495/

 

[Sunne55]

Is this the intake you have?

View attachment 116965View attachment 116966View attachment 116967

Yes, that's what's on it currently.

You sure that Roush Stage 3 cars didn't come with the factory airbox?

I was arguing with Google AI and while it was shaky at best citing things like "check the installation manual, it says to retain the factory airbox" and "the open air filter was an optional upgrade that included a PCM flash" (couldn't find the actual sources it was supposedly quoting), it did have one interesting point:



I did a little more arguing with the AI and it pointed me at the manual (link below) for the CAI upgrade kit, which does specifically say on Page 10:



Here's the link to the manual:

https://lib.americanmuscle.com/files/69118.pdf

It notes that this if for all cars with the M90 kit, to include Stage 3 factory cars:



The manual also talks about the process for sending your PCM in to Roush to get it reflashed for the larger diameter intake.

You're correct, the factory built stage 3's used the bottom part of the housing, then had a custom molded lid to accommodate the larger filter. When I had my Mustang guys put on the new CAI, I had no intentions of moving back to CA, now that I'm back, I need to convert back to the "stock" setup in order to pass the smog at the Ref station. I'm hoping that the CAI didn't have a tune attached to it, but I'm starting to remember that the shop mentioned it...I hope I'm just making that part up in my head somehow. I'd hate to have to pay for a tune because at that point, I'd probably wouldn't be able to afford to put the CAI back on after it passes smog - not right away, at least.

I would get a stock filter box and try to connect it with the Roush part. After that I would do a long test drive to learn the new different air flow, no WOT, no fast stepping on the throttle. If you have luck, the different flow is still in the range of the self-adaptation of the ECU.

I think think this is the way I'm going to go first, you're right.