Rear end locked for a second. info inside

[Cone Sweeper]

Ok.. the fail is strong with me it seems as of this past month or two. So on the way home from work, i'm merging onto the highway and at about 50mph or so the rear end made a weird noise and then jerked and released. I slow down and pull to the side. No noise's from the rear end or clunking. So i attempt to drive again, now I seem to have a whine/squeal when giving it gas coming out of first gear and in between shifts when I push in the clutch and release it.

Now this being said, couple days ago I had to replace the pinion seal on the car because it was leaking. A shop had done it for me because of lack of tools and place to work on the car at the time. Any ideas of what could be up? They did change my pinion angle b/c they claimed it was 10 degree's ..which is kinda off seeing as i've never had a problem with the angle before and when it was set the first time it was perfect. Some help or advice would be awesome.. thanks..

 

[Mike K]

I would bring it straight back to them and say fix it since you had ^no problem with it before

 

[VTXFrank]

You don't go changing pinion angles if they've been set a certain way, and working for a long time, cause it will fuck up your rear end in my experience. I did that just one time and within 50 miles, my pinion gear had worn a whole new pattern into the ring gear and then the pinion gear overheated and snapped off. This was when I was 17 learning about cars. And ever since then, I've heard not to adjust the pinion gear if it has been rolling without issues, even if it is out of spec. You just replace the pinion shaft seal and let it continue to ride at that setting and you either replace the pinion seal every now and then or you replace the pinion and ring gear as a set and adjust it correctly.

I think your mechanics fucked you over sir.

 

[Cone Sweeper]

You don't go changing pinion angles if they've been set a certain way, and working for a long time, cause it will fuck up your rear end in my experience. I did that just one time and within 50 miles, my pinion gear had worn a whole new pattern into the ring gear and then the pinion gear overheated and snapped off. This was when I was 17 learning about cars. And ever since then, I've heard not to adjust the pinion gear if it has been rolling without issues, even if it is out of spec. You just replace the pinion shaft seal and let it continue to ride at that setting and you either replace the pinion seal every now and then or you replace the pinion and ring gear as a set and adjust it correctly.

I think your mechanics fucked you over sir.

Awesome... so you think it could be the pinion and ring gear that i might need to replace now..? which would be roughly how much?

 

[07stangcs]

Local drivetrain shop I use charges $450. That includes the ring and pinion and install. I didn't use FRPP or Motive. I went with Richmond gears with zero issues or whine.

 

[VTXFrank]

The parts aren't expensive at all. The labor isn't too bad either. But it would still be around $300-$400 depending on the place that does it. You can do it yourself, but you have to be very careful because shimming the pinion gear/axles is CRITICAL!

I bet your rear end is whining because the pinion is having to wear a new path on the ring gear. The pinion may or may not snap off because of it. The car I did it too had 130k miles on it and I ended up having to pay for that customer's ring and pinion set. Well, I actually went to a junkyard and got one out of another 4-door Chevelle.

Now's your chance to upgrade to a better ratio though. Assuming your rear end is stock, you can now upgrade to 3.55's, 3.73's or even 4.10's. If you're doing auto-X though, I like the 3.55's.

Edit: You may be able to get away with taking it back to them and letting them know how badly it's whining. They may be able to readjust it so that it doesn't cause damage.

 

[stkjock]

could be the bearings in the rear end

 

[VTXFrank]

could be the bearings in the rear end

That's what I was telling the OP in a PM a bit ago. If the pinion angle was screwed up by the mech's that did the adjustment, there's probably too much pressure on the rear end housing input bearings. And it's surprising how often these guys have no idea how to set the pinion angle on a powerful, solid axle car. They sometimes don't take into account how much our rear ends can pivot up under hard acceleration off the line and they end up not putting in the correct amount of negative pinion angle to make up for this.

But I was just telling the OP in a PM that if his car has low mileage, anything under 75k miles, that it's likely they've adjusted the pinion angle wrong and that's why he is getting the whine. The input bearings are being improperly loaded. If it's higher mileage, like the Chevelle in my other post, the bearings could have enough play in them to allow the actual pinion in the pumpkin to change adjustment laterally, digging into a different part of the ring gear.

Usually, if it's the housing bearings, you get a grinding noise along with the whine. Mostly when going over a set of bumps on the highway that makes your car float up and down. Either way, he needs to get it back to the shop that did the adjustment and have them check out what's really going on with the car. I've also seen mechanics use a single jack on the pumpkin, then adjust the pinion angle and you can't do that. The suspension has to be loaded. So OP, make sure they use a drive on lift. Not the lift where they put the arms under the jacking points on the car. Unless they also know how to jack the rear end to ride height.

 

[Fast64ranchero]

There is no way in Hell changing the pinion angle will start a new wear pattern on the ring and pinion, no way no how!!!
So lets go over what the shop could have done, they could have removed the yoke and replaced the seal, and re-installed the yoke, really not the correct way but lots of peeps do it, the right way to do it requires a new crush sleeve, and you have to take the carrier with ring gear and the pinion out, install new crush sleeve and assemble everything, I suggest you pull the cover and take a look, let us know if any parts are in the bottom of the housing, your noise most likely is do to something getting between the ring and pinion, like parts of the spider gears, maybe the bolt that hold the croos pin in, maybe a bearing came apart.. gonna have to open it up and have a look.

 

[Simon]

There is no way in Hell changing the pinion angle will start a new wear pattern on the ring and pinion, no way no how!!!
So lets go over what the shop could have done, they could have removed the yoke and replaced the seal, and re-installed the yoke, really not the correct way but lots of peeps do it, the right way to do it requires a new crush sleeve, and you have to take the carrier with ring gear and the pinion out, install new crush sleeve and assemble everything, I suggest you pull the cover and take a look, let us know if any parts are in the bottom of the housing, your noise most likely is do to something getting between the ring and pinion, like parts of the spider gears, maybe the bolt that hold the croos pin in, maybe a bearing came apart.. gonna have to open it up and have a look.

Agreed.
Is this a traction lok from Ford I'm assuming? I have a Detroit locker in mine and it has made big banging strange noises since I put it in. Sometimes loading up and unlocking making a huge POW noise, even jerking the car a bit. From everyone I have spoken with (Shop owners) all that stuff is normal with a locker.

 

[tmcolegr]

they could have removed the yoke and replaced the seal, and re-installed the yoke, really not the correct way but lots of peeps do it, the right way to do it requires a new crush sleeve, and you have to take the carrier with ring gear and the pinion out, install new crush sleeve and assemble everything

I disagree with that statement. Ford even has a published procedure to replace the pinion seal without completely disassembling the differential to replace the collapsible spacer

http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=93

 

[VTXFrank]

There is no way in Hell changing the pinion angle will start a new wear pattern on the ring and pinion, no way no how!!!
So lets go over what the shop could have done, they could have removed the yoke and replaced the seal, and re-installed the yoke, really not the correct way but lots of peeps do it, the right way to do it requires a new crush sleeve, and you have to take the carrier with ring gear and the pinion out, install new crush sleeve and assemble everything, I suggest you pull the cover and take a look, let us know if any parts are in the bottom of the housing, your noise most likely is do to something getting between the ring and pinion, like parts of the spider gears, maybe the bolt that hold the croos pin in, maybe a bearing came apart.. gonna have to open it up and have a look.

Is there something that's really different from a 1973 GM rear end to the Ford rear end of today that would prevent that? Or, are you saying that the pinion angle on ANY rear end could not possibly affect the pinion wear pattern? I've never had that incident happen again as I was quickly taught the correct way to align the pinion angle and replace the input seal. So perhaps I was told wrong and what I had really done badly was the seal and screwing up the pinion shims?

 

[Cone Sweeper]

Well, sorry for keeping away from my own thread, i had looked at everything and because i work tonight, i had to get some sleep. It looks to be the bearings are done.. after 200 miles, a lot of metal shavings are on the drain plug - a little more then normal after a major change. Got some quotes... ford said it was almost 1k to fix lol and a couple local shops said about 4-500 and maybe a little more if i just swapped gears now. BUT thank you guys for your help, it's nice to come on a site with a ton of knowledge and willing help. I"ll keep you guys up to date..

 

[Fast64ranchero]

I disagree with that statement. Ford even has a published procedure to replace the pinion seal without completely disassembling the differential to replace the collapsible spacer

http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=93

Like I said you can do it, and lots of people do it, if I was in a pinch I'd do it,

IMO it's like reusing a rubber, suppose to be used one time....

 

[Cone Sweeper]

So kinda curious, because the bearing is done and it howls only when driving at a highway speed ( which was done much earlier when double checking things ) do you guys think i'd make in stop and go traffic for about 25 miles to make it to the shop?

 

[CaliStang]

its most likely the bearing dude and if its whining its only a matter of time before it completely locks up the rear end again i would get back to the shop asap so you dont do any more damage. have them fix it, they fucked it up

 

[Cone Sweeper]

Yeah thats my goal today, but i wonder if i can make it 20 miles to the shop or not.. driving the streets and keep the heat down from the rear end i'm hoping i'd be able to make it..

 

[CaliStang]

youll be fine just stay off the highway cuz if your rear locks doing 80 that would suck. when you go today if the whine starts getting really bad i would pull over

 

[kevinatfms]

ok first off i cannot believe someone is contributing gear whine and axle lockup to pinion angle. a vibration maybe, locking the rear up? HELL NO. pinion angle changes with suspension articulation which in turn can attribute to d/s vibration. your bearings in the nose of your 8.8 are supported enough to contain enough vibration that they will not distort or fail under that degree.
and GM rear ends are entirely different than a ford rear. they may setup somewhat the same, things may be called the same, but they are from 2 different companies.

the gear whine is an improperly torqued crush sleeve causing the ring/pinion to move the gear mesh away from its broken in path. once the preload has been taken off the inner/outer pinion bearings the sleeve SHOULD be replaced. ford does have a procedure to replace the pinion seal and retighten the pinion nut back to specs but you must, MUST check your rotational breakaway torque of your pinion bearings. this is accomplished by removing the carrier assembly and checking for proper torque.

im assuming whoever completed the OP's rear did not torque the rear to specs and the gear pattern has moved because of this. OP-take it back to them and have them r&r the carrier and check the breakaway torque on the pinion nut. it should be between 16-29 inch pounds. make sure they have the correct style torque wrench also, it is dial type, not the clicker type. it needs to record torque during a swing of the pinion flange.

the reason for the rear end lockup may be he overtightened it causing tooth contact out of the gear mesh which was set at the factory or did not tighten it enough causing gear deflection which will cause broken ring gear teeth and metal which can lock the rear up.
ive rebuilt 2 rears for people on this forum due to people not correctly setting the pinion bearing preload.

 

[tmcolegr]

ford does have a procedure to replace the pinion seal and retighten the pinion nut back to specs but you must, MUST check your rotational breakaway torque of your pinion bearings. this is accomplished by removing the carrier assembly and checking for proper torque.

I'm not trying to discredit your statement, but the link I posted earlier clearly gives the OEM procedure for replacing the pinion seal & flange and does NOT require the carrier to be removed when checking the rotational torque of the pinion prior to removing the pinion nut.