which first brake mod

which brake mod first- for occasional road course.

  • Cooling brake ducts

    Votes: 8 24.2%
  • ss lines with high temp fluid

    Votes: 14 42.4%
  • front rotors. gt500 brembo or baer 2+

    Votes: 7 21.2%
  • stock size drilled/slotted with pads

    Votes: 4 12.1%

  • Total voters
    33
  • Poll closed .

Philostang

Chrome Hater
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Posts
429
Reaction score
3
Location
Chicago
So long as we're in a "freak out" mood...and I'm feeling chatty...

Autobahn%20-Sept%2011-12%202010%20010.jpg


Welcome to the track baby! Take your bling and WALK.

Background notes:

First, this isn't my rotor, nor is it a Mustang rotor (Civic, as I recall). This was the rotor of a pretty aggressive track rat (if you don't respect Civics yet, you will when Joe passes by you).

Second, the above occurred largely due to "pushing it" in two ways. A.) He drives fast, requiring hard braking, which he likes to do late. B.) I'm pretty sure he knew he should have replaced that rotor earlier, but he thought "just one more..."

Third, this is a solid rotor. Had it been drilled it would have come to this much sooner.

If you're checking your rotors as you should, you'll start to notice spider cracks developing (heat cracks, stress cracks, etc.). No biggie, at least until they start to get big. For me, this means either they get larger than about 1-1/4" long or I can feel my finger nail catch on them when dragged across the surface. After that, they're getting into a danger zone: what exactly they'll do the next time they're put to service isn't predictable. Usually I've seen them just "open up" (they get only a bit longer, but suddenly develop a gap in them, no longer looking like a spider's thread). Sometimes they open the hell up! (see above pic), make horrendous noise and chew up your pads to nothing. Seen this happen a few times to folks. And sometimes I've heard they just give up the farm entirely (i.e. fragment while spinning).

Alrighty then, now think about the process a bit. Spider cracks develop and grow lengthwise before opening up. In a solid rotor they grow a bit over an inch before they become dangerous. At an inch, what's surrounds them? A: lots more metal that helps sustain the structure. In a drilled rotor, at 3/4" of length what surrounds them? A: nothing, they've already met a drilled hole which does little to support the growing stress as it's put into service again. They become dangerous much sooner.

And of course, what started the stress crack in the first place? A: heat, which is largely managed by mass (and of course quality metallurgy), which has just been reduced in a drilled rotor. The factors contributing to an early demise are capitalizing on one another. Less mass means quicker growth of stress, and then there's very little room for that stress to get help.

History: there was a time when drilled rotors were used in racing, but that was a long time ago and for a purpose. The benefit lie in dealing with the gassing of pads (offering an avenue for the gas to escape before it buffered the contact surface), which was a real concern with the pad compounds used years ago. These days race pad compounds don't gas nearly as much as they once did. So if you look at all the high end race teams you'll see they don't use drilled rotors (and most are now on to carbon ceramic, but that's another story). Why would they? Drilling was considered a necessary evil with only one lingering benefit - BLING! So on some factory sports cars destined for consumers who are not real drivers, just all-show pocketbooks (*cough*Porsche*cough*), you'll still find drilled rotors. Attractive to the Viagra-triangle crowd? Yes. Useful? No.

Best,
-j
 

Ch4r1ie

The Limey Bastard
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Posts
5,211
Reaction score
31
Location
Down Under
15122010061.jpg


One of my EBC dimpled and slotted front rotors after a single heavy day at a Formula 1 Grand Prix circuit whilst using very aggressive HAWK pads, DTC-70's. I will now be using slotted DBA 5000's with the same pads.

Don't forget, something that will help to preserve your rotors is a nice easy warm up and cool down lap or two :thumb2:
 
Last edited:

908ssp

Senior Member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Posts
1,123
Reaction score
0
Location
Michigan
Rotors are disposable they cost less than tires. If can't afford to replace them don't race.
 

Gray Ghost GT

Road Racing Fanatic!
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Posts
1,269
Reaction score
14
Location
Madison, AL
....using very aggressive HAWK pads, DTC-70's. I will now be using slotted DBA 5000's with the same pads.

You're going to really like the DBA 5000 two piece rotors. Once you wear out your Hawk DTC-70s, try the Carbotech XP10s. They're a little easier on the rotors, but still provide plenty of pad life.
 

Ch4r1ie

The Limey Bastard
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Posts
5,211
Reaction score
31
Location
Down Under
You're going to really like the DBA 5000 two piece rotors. Once you wear out your Hawk DTC-70s, try the Carbotech XP10s. They're a little easier on the rotors, but still provide plenty of pad life.

Thanks for the tip about the DBA's from the other thread mate, I'm looking forward to getting them on the car and I'll definitely give the Carbotech a go too :beer:
 
Last edited:

Chim-Chim

Will drive for food
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Posts
160
Reaction score
0
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA
Don't forget, something that will help to preserve your rotors is a nice easy warm up and cool down lap or two :thumb2:

This is key. I usually go further if time allows and do several slow laps around the paddock. This accomplishes two things--lets your rotors cool off evenly and it also lets the engine and coolant (and trans, diff, etc...) return to normal temps instead of baking in place where you park.
 

zxmarekxz

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Posts
1,273
Reaction score
4
Location
NE IL
do you guys know the difference between lapping sessions and wheel to wheel?
apparently, depending on which one I want to go with, I will need to adhere to NASA or SCCA. Not that I know the rollbar requirement differences between the two.

edit: this is regarding to my rollbar...
 
Last edited:

Philostang

Chrome Hater
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Posts
429
Reaction score
3
Location
Chicago
Hmmm, NASA and SCCA are two different sanctioning bodies, and both offer lapping sessions and wheel to wheel. I'm pretty sure that both have pretty similar roll bar requirements, so let's stick to the difference between lapping and wheel to wheel.

Lapping: go around the track to complete laps...do this really fast and have fun.
Wheel to wheel: compete against other drivers who are trying to get in front of your car.

If you "compete" in lapping, then you're doing something like time trials. The objective is to turn the quickest lap time; you don't have to worry about who gets in front of you or behind you, etc. Your "place" doesn't matter, since you are vying for the best time and that can come at any time during your 20 min session (just so long as you get a clean lap).

If you compete in wheel to wheel, you had better be prepared for the much higher likelihood that you'll make contact with another car at some point (sooner rather than later). Thus, "roll bar" requirements typically mean a full cage.

Those seem to be the high points.

Best,
-j
 

zxmarekxz

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Posts
1,273
Reaction score
4
Location
NE IL
Hmmm, NASA and SCCA are two different sanctioning bodies, and both offer lapping sessions and wheel to wheel. I'm pretty sure that both have pretty similar roll bar requirements, so let's stick to the difference between lapping and wheel to wheel.

Lapping: go around the track to complete laps...do this really fast and have fun.
Wheel to wheel: compete against other drivers who are trying to get in front of your car.

If you "compete" in lapping, then you're doing something like time trials. The objective is to turn the quickest lap time; you don't have to worry about who gets in front of you or behind you, etc. Your "place" doesn't matter, since you are vying for the best time and that can come at any time during your 20 min session (just so long as you get a clean lap).

If you compete in wheel to wheel, you had better be prepared for the much higher likelihood that you'll make contact with another car at some point (sooner rather than later). Thus, "roll bar" requirements typically mean a full cage.

Those seem to be the high points.

Best,
-j



thanks, sounds like lapping for me :)
 

Sleeper_08

Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Posts
627
Reaction score
0
Also on lapping events passing is usually only allowed on specific straights and only when you are waved past by the car ahead either by a hand signal or a blinking turn signal.

This means at times some inconsiderate person may hold you up but all you have to do is pit and go back on and then they are out of your way.
 

Kona6Stang10

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Posts
538
Reaction score
0
There is a kit out there that CJponyparts.com sells that utilizes the stock calipers but upgrades the brackets to fit a 14" rotor....I plan on getting those, and they are only 600 bucks
 

Germeezy3

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Posts
3,998
Reaction score
26
There is a kit out there that CJponyparts.com sells that utilizes the stock calipers but upgrades the brackets to fit a 14" rotor....I plan on getting those, and they are only 600 bucks

I think you should possibly PM me if you do that, I have these sitting on the shelf.

58390_1550461914933_1036664860_31532837_426264_n.jpg
 

19COBRA93

Ford Racing
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Posts
7,577
Reaction score
22
Location
Clinton, Ut
There is a kit out there that CJponyparts.com sells that utilizes the stock calipers but upgrades the brackets to fit a 14" rotor....I plan on getting those, and they are only 600 bucks

For $600 you could get a set of nearly new GT500 takeoffs. You'd have the good rotors, AND the good calipers. And by "good", I mean the GT500 Brembos are a lot better than your stock calipers. They're not as good as some of the other radial mount Brembos, but for the price you can't beat it.

Edit: Are you talking front, or rear?
 

Gray Ghost GT

Road Racing Fanatic!
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Posts
1,269
Reaction score
14
Location
Madison, AL
Would the stock gt500 kit pads be enough for the track?

tx

Yes, if you're doing HPDE 1 as a new driver on a road course because its more about building basic skills and car control vs. running at top speed where you're applying more heat and stress on the pads. You should look at better pads once you move out of Level 1.
 

zxmarekxz

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Posts
1,273
Reaction score
4
Location
NE IL
thanks, i'm still fighting for a set on ebay, hopefully I'l get one, if not then what soundguydave said...
 
Back
Top