The more I look...The more I need advice

[nmeofdst82]

Ok..so this past weekend was my first trip to the track.

I had really good luck with my RT at .106 to .238 over 9 runs

My 60' were between 2.001 and 2.17 (except for my first ever run at 2.79 ouch)

With 416rwhp, 3.55, stock suspension (billet LCAs is only modification to suspension), KDW street tires, manual trans, 18" wheels.....

From everything I've read, people with similar setups and ET calculators...I should be running a best of about 11.9-12.1

My best was 13.218 @108

My shifts were fast, I did have a lot of wheel spin in 1st and 2nd on the beginning runs, but my 13.3s and 13.2s where pretty much launch and go with no spinning.

How can I be going that damn slow. The more I read, the more confused I get as to what I need to do to catch up that 1.2 seconds somewhere...

Fire away please....I need all the help I can get.

 

[psfracer]

If you post the entire timeslip (60,330,1/8th,1/8th mph, 1000, 1/4, 1/4mph) then Don and I can look at our timeslip databases and see whats going on.

That being said, first problem is obviously your 60' times. With 415 rwhp and a manual, with a good DR you should be in the 1.6 area. That alone would reduce your ets by 1/2 second or more. Also, what were the track conditions, weather, etc?

But by posting the entire slip, I can determine where else the timeslip falls out of line (for example, maybe the car is pulling timing between the 1000 and 1/4 effecting your et and mph) for example.

 

[nmeofdst82]

This is my 5 runs where the car wasn't super hot from back to back runs.

As far as the track goes, I don't think it was prepped for crap and I don't remember seeing them spray VHT on it once. They might have, but I didn't see them, and it didn't have that "sticky" sound when people rolled through there like it sounded at Infineon. First run i'm not going to list because I mostly just spun and went a 14.95..haha

.461
2.242
5.836
8.762
84.748
11.221
13.319
108.071 (spun off the line)

.204
2.120
5.760
8.710
83.264
11.187
13.358
103.457

.106
2.254
5.963
8.993
80.464
11.543
13.652
106.918 (hot lapped this one)

.506
2.077
5.728
8.670
83.555
11.138
13.218
102.462

.151
2.114
5.741
8.684
83.934
11.170
13.271
107.483

thanks for the help by the way.

(forgot to mention this, even when car was super hot, Wideband in 3rd to traps was pegged 10.4-10.6, already discussed me being too rich after dyno runs and such with brenspeed and he seemed to think I should leave it. Dyno runs and all my WOT runs show 10.6-11.1 AFR)

 

[stkjock]

A good drag radial will help a ton. And practice. my first few passes on my car with DRs were in the 12.9-13.2 area. Practice and a stronger clutch have helped me get to a 12.3 with a 1.71 60 ft. The car has more in it IMO. I have to work on my shifts.

 

[marcspaz]

Dude, replace your factory suspension with somthing stiff and lower; at least springs,shocks, and front struts. Get some drag radials. Leave the line on hot tires at 4k-5k. Do try to blow them off going into second.

You have the same 1/8 mile as a 13.5/13.6 car. You look like your power is helping you out a few 1/10ths on the top end. You gotta get that 60' down.

I'm on summer time street tires with 115 less HP making better numbers because I can hit 1.9 and 1.85 60' times. It's all about the hook-up...

 

[nmeofdst82]

Money is a semi issue for a bit...

Researching, I see some fast cars with stock front springs and rear spring replacements (roush springs I think)...I'm assuming these are stiffer springs, but how much do they lower the car?

I think I could squeeze the money for wheels/slicks and rear springs, If I don't have to do much else besides the springs for now.

speaking of which, rear springs are basically: raise the rear to unload the suspension, compress the springs and take them out and reverse, right?

Oh, and if the stock front spring/replace rear spring is a viable alternative which should I go for? Lowering the car is not high on my list of things to do. I could probably squeeze in new rear shocks if necessary also.

 

[stkjock]

IMO - LCA/UCA upgrades would be a better use if your funds are limited

 

[nmeofdst82]

IMO - LCA/UCA upgrades would be a better use if your funds are limited

Already have billet LCAs. If I'm not seeing any wheelhop, is the UCA necessary?

 

[marcspaz]

Money is a semi issue for a bit...

Researching, I see some fast cars with stock front springs and rear spring replacements (roush springs I think)...I'm assuming these are stiffer springs, but how much do they lower the car?

I think I could squeeze the money for wheels/slicks and rear springs, If I don't have to do much else besides the springs for now.

speaking of which, rear springs are basically: raise the rear to unload the suspension, compress the springs and take them out and reverse, right?

Oh, and if the stock front spring/replace rear spring is a viable alternative which should I go for? Lowering the car is not high on my list of things to do. I could probably squeeze in new rear shocks if necessary also.

You can do just springs, but do front and back. It won't be as good as doing the shocks/struts too, but it will make a noticable dif.

The thing is the suspension should be loaded in such a way that when you dump the gas (ideally) the back of the car should raise up slightly, then the front should start to lift, shifting weight to the back. This will give you the best use of tq and help improve traction.

I used the Ford Racing springs M-5300-K they are about $225. No spring compressor needed, but you will need an impact wrench.
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=8686

they lower the car about 1.5 inches...Do that, combined with some DRs or slicks + what you already did, you will be pulling between 1.85 and 1.7 with a few weeks of practice.

 

[don_w]

I have a couple comments.

1. It seems to me that the car is way off in the first 1/8, starting with the first 60 feet. But if track prep and traction were crappy, there isn't much you can do about it except leave softer and try not to spin. Still won't help ETs much though. My guess is that you should be running low 8s/high 7s at the 1/8. The 3.55s aren't helping much down there either. Drag tires and gears would help get things moving.

I may be wrong, but I think Ed (msgt46270) is making about 420rwhp with his Saleen S/C, 3.73s, auto trans, and 26" M/T DRs, and he ran consistently in the 7.6-7.8 range in the 1/8-mi.

2. I disagree with the comments about the springs and struts. I still have the factory stocks springs at all four corners, as well as the stock front struts, and have recorded many 60-ft times in the 1.5-1.6 range (with an auto trans even), with a best of 1.52. All I added was a pair of Strange adj shocks in the rear to try to help control some of the torque roll.

With that said, on this next mod binge, I'll be adding a BMR anti-roll bar and coilover springs... but we're also kicking the boost up to 16-18 psi, so I'll need some additional help back there.

 

[marcspaz]

Dude, your pulling those numbers on stock springs/struts?! Damn...

The main reason I recommended them is because of my own experiance. My car used to sit down horribly with the stock setup. I watched some video and the ass sat down almost 2 inches...now it doesn't sag at all out of the hole.

I was running 2.1 - 2.2 60' times. The only thing I changed between then and now (1.85 - 1.90 60') is I got my FFRP suspension.

I didn't bring up the gears cause I had a harder time hooking on the bottom end even though once it hooked is was great. If he is already having traction issues, I would still start with wheels and DR's or slicks.

Now, for the really important question...Who recommendation do you trust???

Well, given you can't argue with results AND I ask Don for advise all the time...well...don't make me say it...nnnnooooooo iiitttt burns....my ego can't take it...LOL

 

[don_w]

LOL...

I was indeed getting a lot of squat, but it was more a problem with the angle of the LCAs. They actually pointed down towards the front of the car, which really messed up the instant center (IC) of the car. Once I added the Steeda anti-squat brackets, and changed the IC, the squat was greatly reduced, and the end result was that little tiny sliver of air you see under the tire in my avatar. haha

The car is still rolling slightly to the right, but I expect the anti-roll bar to fix that. The coilover setup I'll be adding will mainly be to help me dial it all in better.

 

[psfracer]

Stock front suspension here to---except for the front sway bar removed. I didn't put in front lowering springs because the added weight of the s/c and cast iron block lowered the front anyway.

Rear suspension is J&M lca's, CHE anti squat brackets (to get the correct angle for the LCA's since my car is lowered), CHE UCA, and rear coilovers with lakewood 50/50 drag shocks. Best 1.43 60'.

My next step is also to add a anti roll bar.

 

[stkjock]

Already have billet LCAs. If I'm not seeing any wheelhop, is the UCA necessary?

my bad missed the upgrade on the LCA

maybe someone a bit more knowledgeable can correct me if I'm off in my thinking... but if u got a adj UCA you could dial in the pinion a bit more neg to help ur traction

 

[nmeofdst82]

Here's what I'm planning on buying tomorrow.....

CHE anti-squat brackets (pmp sale)

CHE Adj UCA (pmp sale)

17" wheels with cheater slicks (overall price with shipping is good)

Roush Rear springs http://store.roushperformance.com/detail.aspx?ID=322

Strange Shock (closest I see is S6004LM...anyone know if this is it, says 94-04 but no 05-08 listed)

How does this look for a list???

 

[marcspaz]

I added the Steeda anti-squat brackets

I've seen the anti-roll bars before, but I haven't seen the relocation bracket from them. Did they weld in??? (I hope...)

 

[marcspaz]

Here's what I'm planning on buying tomorrow.....

CHE anti-squat brackets (pmp sale)

CHE Adj UCA (pmp sale)

17" wheels with cheater slicks (overall price with shipping is good)

Roush Rear springs http://store.roushperformance.com/detail.aspx?ID=322

Strange Shock (closest I see is S6004LM...anyone know if this is it, says 94-04 but no 05-08 listed)

How does this look for a list???

Looks good...not sure about the shocks. What kind of wheels and tires?

 

[don_w]

Strange Shock (closest I see is S6004LM...anyone know if this is it, says 94-04 but no 05-08 listed)

Those are the same shocks I have. You'll need a spacer (or a few washers) on the lower mounting bolt, because the bracket is too wide. A couple pics of my set-up are below.

BTW, mine will be coming off the car soon and I'll probably sell them then (including the spacers).



Stock on left, Strange on right

Pic of spacers on bottom

 

[don_w]

I've seen the anti-roll bars before, but I haven't seen the relocation bracket from them. Did they weld in??? (I hope...)

Yes, they only weld in. They have three different LCA mounting locations, which gives me options to adjust the angle to optimize the setup.

http://steeda.com/products/lower_trailing_arm_relocation_brackets.php

 

[nmeofdst82]

Looks good...not sure about the shocks. What kind of wheels and tires?

http://www.brenspeed.com/mustang_2005/images/hol-3589a2etstreets.gif

pretty good deal