4.0 resurrection from the dead.

The "Car" has come to life. Re manned long block with all the upgrades, like timing chains, gears, guides, tensioners, head and block work, all the normal stuff. Aluminum thermostat housing, water pump, radiator, blue hose kit, K & N cold air filter, dumped the hollow "muffler" that the kid had on there which made it unbearable to drive any distance due to the "Drone" inside. I fabbed the mounts and put a Hush Thrush on it. Has a growl, but zero drone. Now I can hear the stereo. The power is the same, low end feels a bit better actually. Oh, I also scored a set of wheels off Facebook marketplace today. Looks so much better. enjoying the car now.

Congratulations. Nice job!

Gettin there... any pics of the engine?

DieHarder said:

Gettin there... any pics of the engine?

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I'll shoot some and post tomorrow. It's a fun car to drive. Having a stick car really puts the driver back into the driving process. I grew up on sticks. My Focus (wife's car" and my F150 and Bronco are all automatics. Also, having a baase car without the ABS/TC and shutting off the TPMS is really nice, no nagging lights and brake pulsing. I'm enjoying it.

Nothing special really. Just Cold air, blue wires and blue cooling hoses. No supercharger or turbos, yet.

Nice glad you’re enjoying it.


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Sweet - way to bring another pony back to the wild. Great look'n ride!

I'm pretty lucky, I'm in this car so far for less than 4K. Still have a few appearance things to do, but it's running great so far on the new drive train. Enjoying the heck out of it. My new daily!

Looks great!

Cancerman said:

Nothing special really. Just Cold air, blue wires and blue cooling hoses. No supercharger or turbos, yet.
View attachment 82074

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TBH don't even bother with Superchargers or Turbos, the 4.0L are super reliable but can't handle that much power, I've heard the 4.0L can only handle 300-350 HP SAFELY ~400-450HP is the MAX but you're risking it, unfortunately is not the 3.7L which can easily handle 500+

0M3GA said:

TBH don't even bother with Superchargers or Turbos, the 4.0L are super reliable but can't handle that much power, I've heard the 4.0L can only handle 300-350 HP SAFELY ~400-450HP is the MAX but you're risking it, unfortunately is not the 3.7L which can easily handle 500+

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Right now I think I'd just be happy with a proper tune to maximize the mods I've done. It's got a bad lean spot that causes off idle / partial throttle opening that makes it jerk a bit. You have to go past 1/4 throttle to prevent it in 1st - 2nd gear going slow. I've reached out to a member here who is a HPtuners tuning specialist, but it's been crickets so far. I could use his advice before I start ordering tuners, cables, software, etc. I'd consider just taking it to a tuning dyno shop, but everyone tells me $600-$1000 for a tune. I've also been told the canned tunes don't really work well on cars with cold air, exhaust mods, etc. I'm just going to enjoy the car and make it comfortable for daily use. If I really find it too slow, which so far, I don't, I'll sell it and find a Coyote car. I doubt I'll need that really. I don't want a time bomb car. Been there, done that before.

So my next issue is the front end alignment. I believe the previous owner put front lowering springs on it. The camber is noticeably off. I feel the car "Hunt" a bit, but the steering is tight. Toe in can be done locally, but everyone I talk to doesn't want to mess with the camber adjustment. There is a set of cam bolts that have to be added to the strut to adjust the camber for lowered suspensions. I've ordered the kits and will install them myself. Then head for the alignment shop. I don't want to wreck my new tires.

Cancerman said:

Right now I think I'd just be happy with a proper tune to maximize the mods I've done. It's got a bad lean spot that causes off idle / partial throttle opening that makes it jerk a bit. You have to go past 1/4 throttle to prevent it in 1st - 2nd gear going slow. I've reached out to a member here who is a HPtuners tuning specialist, but it's been crickets so far. I could use his advice before I start ordering tuners, cables, software, etc. I'd consider just taking it to a tuning dyno shop, but everyone tells me $600-$1000 for a tune. I've also been told the canned tunes don't really work well on cars with cold air, exhaust mods, etc. I'm just going to enjoy the car and make it comfortable for daily use. If I really find it too slow, which so far, I don't, I'll sell it and find a Coyote car. I doubt I'll need that really. I don't want a time bomb car. Been there, done that before.

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Got some kind of a scan app that can look at live data?
I use Torque pretty much all the time now and display engine temp, mpg, fuel trims, etc.
The reason I say monitor first and try to find out why its jumping like that. Before jumping on tuning. If it is stock, it should run stock. These cars throw the CEL prety quick if something is wrong, and it sounds to me there should be atleast pending codes.

Front end: unless you have a pulling to one side concern, or want to add camber for cornering, leave camber alone. A slight toe-in is where the factory sets these cars for stability. Toe-out or even zero toe could make it wander.
How are the lower control arm bushings?

Juice said:

Got some kind of a scan app that can look at live data?
I use Torque pretty much all the time now and display engine temp, mpg, fuel trims, etc.
The reason I say monitor first and try to find out why its jumping like that. Before jumping on tuning. If it is stock, it should run stock. These cars throw the CEL prety quick if something is wrong, and it sounds to me there should be atleast pending codes.

Front end: unless you have a pulling to one side concern, or want to add camber for cornering, leave camber alone. A slight toe-in is where the factory sets these cars for stability. Toe-out or even zero toe could make it wander.
How are the lower control arm bushings?

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I have the Forscan download with the dual switch adapter. I can monitor some of the perimeters, not sure just which I'll need to log. I don't know if the tune is the stock tune in the ECU. The car has a free flowing exhaust, not stock. The car has Cold air, not stock. It idles pretty smooth, when it's in first and you let the clutch out it bucks, unless you are past 1/4 throttle, then it's smooth. It does this in 2nd also. Mainly when you are lugging in a parking lot, or pulling away from a stop. Other than that one spot it seems to run well.
As far as the front end, the front wheels are tilted in at the top. You can see it looking at the front wheels in the wheel wells. I believe the previous owner put lowering springs in the front, it seems a bit low. I've read that if you lower a S197 you need the lower strut bolts with the cams, which allow you to correct the lowered front end. Since this thing was owned by a kid, I expect it has not been done right. It does not pull to one side, the steering is tight, very responsive. When riding on uneven roads it follows the bumps or surface instead of just tracking straight. I know toe in can cause this. I also see a bit of inside tire wear on the previous tire, which were 17's. So the camber is off, and using a vertical level on flat ground the front tires are off compared to the rears. I also know that lowered s197's use an adjustable top strut mount plate as well. When I take things apart I'll check the lower A arm bushings as well. When it's done I'll take it to a rack shop to get set right. I'll look into Torque also.

Based on the above info, the most likely cause is incorrect CAI data in tune. (or no tune change for a tune required cai) But if that is the case, the cel should trip with codes after some time.

Look at live data with Forscan, and look at STFT and LTFT. If I am correct, Short Term Fuel Trim at idle will be in double digits for both banks. Or long term will be in double digits while short term will be close to zero.

I'm guessing that nobody tuned this car when they threw on the CAI. I'll bet it wouldn't stumble if it had the stock air cleaner. I'll go hook it up and see what I find. If it's going to need a tune I still have to figure out which way to go tuner wise. I see SCT's around cheap, but I gotta make sure it's not locked. I have zero experience with this as of right now, so I've gotta figure things out and not spend a fortune. I've heard canned tunes don't fix the CAI issues, mainly just for stock cars.

Cancerman said:

I'm guessing that nobody tuned this car when they threw on the CAI. I'll bet it wouldn't stumble if it had the stock air cleaner. I'll go hook it up and see what I find. If it's going to need a tune I still have to figure out which way to go tuner wise. I see SCT's around cheap, but I gotta make sure it's not locked. I have zero experience with this as of right now, so I've gotta figure things out and not spend a fortune. I've heard canned tunes don't fix the CAI issues, mainly just for stock cars.

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That depends. Without going into specifics:
Some handheld tuning devices have a preloaded list of CAIs available and you can add it to a canned tune. Some let you tweak the MAF transfer.
SCT x4 you will still need the software in addition, or have someone remote tune it. (Lito, if you go SCT)
Hptuners costs about the same as x4+prp.
Diablosport InTune is hated by most, yet it is the most powerful by itself, without software. (You can export the last tune, add it back as a custom tune and go past the adjustment limits of the MAF for example.)

So I messed with it today, reading things.
RPM 700-800
02s11STFT -1.56 to 1.56
02s21STFT -2.34 to 0.78
Long FT1% -12.50
Long FT2% -4.69
SHRT FT1 -1.56 to 0.78
SHRT FT2 -3.13 to 0.78
02s21% -2.34 to zero
02s22% 99.22
TP R% 1.18
TP % 14.51
The 99% is the short term fuel trim bank2 sens 2, which is the RH bank, and the post cat ox sensor.
I thought the sensor might be bad, but it's voltage was at.75 as was the LH post cat ox sensor, both moving with rpm the same. I read on a Ford Forscan site that the PCM uses only the Bank 1 sensors for mixture, and that the PCM does not read the RH #2 for mixture and it just installs the 99% number to set itself. How true this is, I don't know. Even with the voltage, when you look for the error code it shows Fuel Syst 2 bank 2 error. It does NOT turn on the check engine light or throw any OBD2 codes. Really, this lean jerk is my only complaint. Continuing on with my education, I guess. It's not really stopping me from driving the car.
Engine temps are fine. I don't think it's really running too lean.

Based on LTFT2, your CAI is not the issue. Its actually a tad rich and the LTFTs are pullimg some fuel.

That is a pretty significant difference between LTFT bank. The pcm is pulling fuel on both banks, but more on one side. I think the CAI was added to the tune.
The big question is which LTFT is the issue.
Best suggestion:swap upstream O2 sensors, reset pcm, drive and see if the difference follows the O2 sensor or not.

Cancerman said:

So I messed with it today, reading things.
RPM 700-800
02s11STFT -1.56 to 1.56
02s21STFT -2.34 to 0.78
Long FT1% -12.50
Long FT2% -4.69
SHRT FT1 -1.56 to 0.78
SHRT FT2 -3.13 to 0.78
02s21% -2.34 to zero
02s22% 99.22
TP R% 1.18
TP % 14.51
The 99% is the short term fuel trim bank2 sens 2, which is the RH bank, and the post cat ox sensor.
I thought the sensor might be bad, but it's voltage was at.75 as was the LH post cat ox sensor, both moving with rpm the same. I read on a Ford Forscan site that the PCM uses only the Bank 1 sensors for mixture, and that the PCM does not read the RH #2 for mixture and it just installs the 99% number to set itself. How true this is, I don't know. Even with the voltage, when you look for the error code it shows Fuel Syst 2 bank 2 error. It does NOT turn on the check engine light or throw any OBD2 codes. Really, this lean jerk is my only complaint. Continuing on with my education, I guess. It's not really stopping me from driving the car.
Engine temps are fine. I don't think it's really running too lean.

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On the 4.0L V6, cylinder 1 is the front cylinder on the passenger side which makes that bank 1. The driver's side is bank 2.
Therefore it's the post cat sensor on the driver's side that's reading high. As Juice suggested, swap sensors with the other side and see if the high reading moves with the sensor.
Your short term fuel trims are fine but the negative long term fuel trim from bank 1 sensor 1 (passenger side) shows that bank is running a tad rich and the ECU is pulling out fuel on that side. Again, you could swap sensors with the other side as Juice suggested and see.
I think the off idle jerk at throttle tip in could indeed be a transient lean spot, and I think the canned tune that went with the CAI could be responsible. Invariably the generic canned tunes that come on a handheld tuner cause a lean spot because the MAF transfer curve hasn't been properly dialed in for the larger diameter intake tube.