Blown 3v 4.6 - replacement options

Andrey Sidorov · May 24, 2022

Good afternoon everyone, hope you all have a fantastic day.
So about a year ago my procharged 4.6 roush's motor decided to head out of the existence. Right now im in a good place in terms of time and founds to get the car back to life hopefully by mid summer.

Im really on the verge here - what do you guys think is the best route to go?
1 - Source a used motor?
2 - Buy a new long block - if so, what are the companies that sell those?
3 - ??? not sure if there are any other options, maybe rebuild but that will be extremely expensive i think

Im looking to bring the car back to life around 420-450 rwhp as a nice weekend getaway car, no crazy power, will put the procharger back on, rails injectors, fuel return kit and get a tune (all those i have)

What are your toughts and what you think will be the best route? - im looking at around 6-7k total budget
Thanks!

Dino Dino Bambino · May 24, 2022

I suggest you find a decent used motor and refresh it with forged rods/pistons, new oil pump with billet gears, new bearings/gaskets/seals, new timing set, new water pump, new cam followers/lash adjusters, and performance cams. Add LT headers of your choice, 47lb injectors, a tune, and have some fun.
I guarantee someone is going to suggest a Coyote swap but that'll get you in a whole new ballgame which will end up costing a lot more than $7k.

Andrey Sidorov · May 24, 2022

Dino Dino Bambino said:
I suggest you find a decent used motor and refresh it with forged rods/pistons, new oil pump with billet gears, new bearings/gaskets/seals, new timing set, new water pump, new cam followers/lash adjusters, and performance cams. Add LT headers of your choice, 47lb injectors, a tune, and have some fun.
I guarantee someone is going to suggest a Coyote swap but that'll get you in a whole new ballgame which will end up costing a lot more than $7k.

Thank you for the suggestion, what would you think something like that would end up with labour?, also if you will have some time if you have any suggestions for the parts themselves (brand etc..) would be great! Also im not 100 percent sure what exactly blew in my current engine, i would assume rod (sounds like someone hitting a pot with a huge ladle very hard lol, also cyl one compression is 0, so im not sure if i would be able to reuse the block i have

stkjock · May 24, 2022

what if any labor are you expecting to do yourself?

quickpony · May 25, 2022

Andrey Sidorov said:
Good afternoon everyone, hope you all have a fantastic day.
So about a year ago my procharged 4.6 roush's motor decided to head out of the existence. Right now im in a good place in terms of time and founds to get the car back to life hopefully by mid summer.

Im really on the verge here - what do you guys think is the best route to go?
1 - Source a used motor?
2 - Buy a new long block - if so, what are the companies that sell those?
3 - ??? not sure if there are any other options, maybe rebuild but that will be extremely expensive i think

Im looking to bring the car back to life around 420-450 rwhp as a nice weekend getaway car, no crazy power, will put the procharger back on, rails injectors, fuel return kit and get a tune (all those i have)

What are your toughts and what you think will be the best route? - im looking at around 6-7k total budget
Thanks!

When my 2009 GT blew with only 13K miles (
FORD DID NOT COVER UNDER WARRANTY) I was referred to Team JDM www.teamjdm.com by a friend that works at Roush. They built me a custom engine from block up. Installed new supercharger etc. Highly recommend them
JDM 2005-2010 4.6L 3V Mustang 300 Cu In. Stroker Short Block - JDM Engineering (teamjdm.com)

eighty6gt · May 25, 2022

Get a used 4.6 engine. Low mileage and later model the better, I think by 2008 the phaser issues were long gone.
Put conrods that cross back to the original 5.0 boss 302's onto the factory pistons. I got new circlips from Ford. These conrods cost me about $11/ea and the balance was about 500, you can probably spend less.
Get a complete engine gasket set from rock auto to put it all back together, my front seal especially was leaking badly.
Do not touch the cams, rocker arms, phasers, springs, lifters, chains, tensioners, or anything on the heads. The 4.6 3v system will go 200k, 300k miles. I did a valve job on the exhaust valves only as they were pitted fairly badly - intake valves I left completely alone.
Use the stock headers and stock midpipe. You can use the stock mufflers also but something like the MBRP installer series cat back would sound very nice.

I make a lot more power than your goal but I use longtubes, cams, springs - none of that was worth it. The best the car was was with stock headers/h, cams, GT500KR cat back, and an M90 supercharger. Stock suspension and brakes. After that the fun/$ ratio went down to almost nothing. I will draw a graph... later.

**420rw or more is also done on stock internals. I had the VMP500 system (allegedly 500 crank hp,) for years this way. I only say to open the engine because it's a nice job, you can be certain you'll never move the rods even if you crank it up to 500 wheel, and you'll have no oil leaks and everything will go in nice and clean.

Andrey Sidorov · May 25, 2022

eighty6gt said:
Get a used 4.6 engine. Low mileage and later model the better, I think by 2008 the phaser issues were long gone.
Put conrods that cross back to the original 5.0 boss 302's onto the factory pistons. I got new circlips from Ford. These conrods cost me about $11/ea and the balance was about 500, you can probably spend less.
Get a complete engine gasket set from rock auto to put it all back together, my front seal especially was leaking badly.
Do not touch the cams, rocker arms, phasers, springs, lifters, chains, tensioners, or anything on the heads. The 4.6 3v system will go 200k, 300k miles. I did a valve job on the exhaust valves only as they were pitted fairly badly - intake valves I left completely alone.
Use the stock headers and stock midpipe. You can use the stock mufflers also but something like the MBRP installer series cat back would sound very nice.

I make a lot more power than your goal but I use longtubes, cams, springs - none of that was worth it. The best the car was was with stock headers/h, cams, GT500KR cat back, and an M90 supercharger. Stock suspension and brakes. After that the fun/$ ratio went down to almost nothing. I will draw a graph... later.

**420rw or more is also done on stock internals. I had the VMP500 system (allegedly 500 crank hp,) for years this way. I only say to open the engine because it's a nice job, you can be certain you'll never move the rods even if you crank it up to 500 wheel, and you'll have no oil leaks and everything will go in nice and clean.

Thanks for an extensive reply, by con rods - do you mean bolts for connecting rods or rods themselves?,

Andrey Sidorov · May 25, 2022

stkjock said:
what if any labor are you expecting to do yourself?

Swap will have to be done in a shop, but putting procharger back on, new rad that i have from mishimoto and other small things im planning to do myself

eighty6gt · May 25, 2022

Andrey Sidorov said:
Thanks for an extensive reply, by con rods - do you mean bolts for connecting rods or rods themselves?,

Connecting Rod (CR3Z-6200-B)|Tascaparts.com | TascaParts.com

You can see these were first fitted to the boss 302 (need to expand application list,) and then added to a lot of other stuff over the years. The shop took a little bit off of the big end to get balance with my stock pistons and *crankshaft. I put some new mahle rings in the stock bores (no hone,) but this is probably not necessary. Just clean up and reassemble.

Racer47 · May 25, 2022

I have a 10k mile stock crank, rods, pistons, rings, bearing, cam chains, phasers, chain guides, oil pump and maybe other bits. I'll sell it all relativity cheap. All you need is a good stock block and heads.

I've been waiting for someone local or a friend to need them. But I'm still waiting.

Andrey Sidorov · May 28, 2022

eighty6gt said:
Connecting Rod (CR3Z-6200-B)|Tascaparts.com | TascaParts.com

You can see these were first fitted to the boss 302 (need to expand application list,) and then added to a lot of other stuff over the years. The shop took a little bit off of the big end to get balance with my stock pistons and *crankshaft. I put some new mahle rings in the stock bores (no hone,) but this is probably not necessary. Just clean up and reassemble.

Hey, so i just picked up a used motor today and got pretty lucky - car was a garage queen and the guy took it out one weekend and got rear-ended. Long story short the motor and car has 6900 miles on it so i got that motor. My question would be - besides rods what whould you think is better to replace in terms of gaskets while its out of the car? Probably shouldnt touch the head a do any rubber that is possible? Thank you again

Midlife Crises · May 28, 2022

You have a good, low mile replacement motor. You might turn it upside down and pull the oil pan for a look inside. If it looks good, clean and tight put the pan back on and run it. No need to replace anything in the 400 hp region. If you are willing to pull the front cover off you could install billet oil pump gears or a hi volume pump with billet gears and a forged steel crank gear. Wether you need it or not it won’t hurt anything. That said! If your are going to beat on it (like I would) install a forged, balanced rotating assembly in the block and don’t worry about in coming apart. Especially with the blower.

Andrey Sidorov · May 29, 2022

Midlife Crises said:
You have a good, low mile replacement motor. You might turn it upside down and pull the oil pan for a look inside. If it looks good, clean and tight put the pan back on and run it. No need to replace anything in the 400 hp region. If you are willing to pull the front cover off you could install billet oil pump gears or a hi volume pump with billet gears and a forged steel crank gear. Wether you need it or not it won’t hurt anything. That said! If your are going to beat on it (like I would) install a forged, balanced rotating assembly in the block and don’t worry about in coming apart. Especially with the blower.

Thanks for a quick reply, yeah pan will be pulled after a weekend, the story is that yeah the motor is low miles but the car was hit about 2 years ago and there was a court going on for payments and stuff so technically it was sitting for quite a long time no running, that’s why I was asking about what gaskets to replace, as for building now , I don’t really want the shop to open the head and play with timing and those components unless it’s a must , power yeah for now around 450

Midlife Crises · May 29, 2022

The seals (gaskets) in the 4.6 3V are very durable and not prone to leaking unless they have been distributed. Not sure what affect setting (time) has on the modern seals used in these engines but you can’t replace them if you don’t take it covers off. Rear main, front main, front cover, oil pan, oil filter adapter and valve covers are not difficult to replace while the engine is out.

Andrey Sidorov · May 29, 2022

Midlife Crises said:
The seals (gaskets) in the 4.6 3V are very durable and not prone to leaking unless they have been distributed. Not sure what affect setting (time) has on the modern seals used in these engines but you can’t replace them if you don’t take it covers off. Rear main, front main, front cover, oil pan, oil filter adapter and valve covers are not difficult to replace while the engine is out.

Thank you, will replace those you mentioned, i also kinda assume that the reason my old motor headed out was due to oil pump failure, is it true that those are known to have issues especially boosted?, should i go with billet gears fromm tss or someone else?

Andrey Sidorov · May 29, 2022

Midlife Crises said:
The seals (gaskets) in the 4.6 3V are very durable and not prone to leaking unless they have been distributed. Not sure what affect setting (time) has on the modern seals used in these engines but you can’t replace them if you don’t take it covers off. Rear main, front main, front cover, oil pan, oil filter adapter and valve covers are not difficult to replace while the engine is out.

My bad, im an idiot, reread your previous message and you mentioned that, i guess the question is only about the brand of gears

Midlife Crises · May 30, 2022

Andrey Sidorov said:
brand of gears

I am running Boundry gears in a hi volume pump. I have no complaints. TSS gears are supposed to be very good.

Dino Dino Bambino · May 30, 2022

Andrey Sidorov said:
Thank you, will replace those you mentioned, i also kinda assume that the reason my old motor headed out was due to oil pump failure, is it true that those are known to have issues especially boosted?, should i go with billet gears fromm tss or someone else?

The stock oil pump gears are made from powdered metal. This makes them light, strong, and can be manufactured to very precise tolerances. Unfortunately they' aren't strong enough on engines that are equipped with superchargers as these put extra strain on the crank and the OPGs that are driven by it. The chances of failure increase with rpm so it's even more critical to install billet OPGs on engines that have centrifugal superchargers since these are more likely to be revved above 6500rpm.TSS gears are the most expensive but are reputedly the best. Boundary gears are about half the price but are still very good.
Since you're going to replace the oil pump, I suggest you opt for the OEM GT500 unit (part no. DR3Z6600A) since this has a steel backplate that is less prone to wear than the stock 3V aluminium version. You can then swap the billet OPGs into it.
The timing kit (including phasers) inside that low mileage used engine shouldn't need replacing but since the front cover will be off anyway to replace the oil pump, you'll be able to inspect those items.
You mentioned that you won't be running more than 450rwtq but sooner or later, you'll probably get the itch to add more boost. When the time comes to scratch it, you might wish the engine had forged rods/pistons. Therefore I suggest you upgrade those now so you won't have regrets later. The stock crank has no problem handling up to 700rwhp so you can retain it.
Here's some reading you might find interesting:

https://www.angelfire.com/my/fan/Mustang2006GT/Engine.html

Andrey Sidorov · May 31, 2022

Dino Dino Bambino said:
The stock oil pump gears are made from powdered metal. This makes them light, strong, and can be manufactured to very precise tolerances. Unfortunately they' aren't strong enough on engines that are equipped with superchargers as these put extra strain on the crank and the OPGs that are driven by it. The chances of failure increase with rpm so it's even more critical to install billet OPGs on engines that have centrifugal superchargers since these are more likely to be revved above 6500rpm.TSS gears are the most expensive but are reputedly the best. Boundary gears are about half the price but are still very good.
Since you're going to replace the oil pump, I suggest you opt for the OEM GT500 unit (part no. DR3Z6600A) since this has a steel backplate that is less prone to wear than the stock 3V aluminium version. You can then swap the billet OPGs into it.
The timing kit (including phasers) inside that low mileage used engine shouldn't need replacing but since the front cover will be off anyway to replace the oil pump, you'll be able to inspect those items.
You mentioned that you won't be running more than 450rwtq but sooner or later, you'll probably get the itch to add more boost. When the time comes to scratch it, you might wish the engine had forged rods/pistons. Therefore I suggest you upgrade those now so you won't have regrets later. The stock crank has no problem handling up to 700rwhp so you can retain it.
Here's some reading you might find interesting:

https://www.angelfire.com/my/fan/Mustang2006GT/Engine.html

Thank you once again for the extensive explanation, got the gaskets, pump and gears ordered, i was looking into boss 302 forged rods, they seem like a direct fit and for a good cost (since rods are so weak in 3v), but since shop will be there already - pistons look like a good option too, besides the fact that im not really sure how it all works. I understand i will need balancing for a stock crank but what about machining?, is there a way to get oem spec pistons but forged? (sorry if sound dumb, i really dont know much about this)

Laga · May 31, 2022

Andrey Sidorov said:
I understand i will need balancing for a stock crank but what about machining?, is there a way to get oem spec pistons but forged? (sorry if sound dumb, i really dont know much about this)

I am in the middle of getting my 05 built with forged rods and pistons. I have decided to maintain the stock crank because I’m not going crazy with the boost and it was in very good shape. You will need to have the block and cylinders measured by the machine shop to see what needs to be done. You can get forged pistons from DSS.

Blown 3v 4.6 - replacement options

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