Hanging idle in between shifts

2ndstang84

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Hello, I have a 06 GT 4.6 5 speed and the rpm’s don’t come down fast enough. Really makes for a slow shift. The car knock on wood idles well any other time. Would a tune fix this issue? I bought the car not knowing if it has a tune or not. Any way to find out? Also I heard that’s there’s a way to put the car into a stock sport mode or something like that. It’s got bbk headers, jlt warm air intake, exhaust as far as I can tell. Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Frank

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GriffX

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Is the car new to you? It has a strange way of changing gears. If you're used to drive other manual transmission cars you usually get off the pedal and press the clutch simultaneously but not with this car. The car revs up if you do it this way, I release the pedal first completely and press the clutch then. Don't know if this is fixable with a tune (the S550 has the same)
 

StockishS197

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RPM decay between shifts is a function of the tune - combination of dashpot tables and decel spark. A tune can make RPM decay more aggressive up to a point.

These cars don’t have sport mode like the newer S197s do, but I believe that’s just a more aggressive advance track/traction control.

With your mods (notably the JLT with a larger MAF), your car almost certainly has a tune otherwise it wouldn’t run.
 

GlassTop09

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Only thing I'll add to all of this...................

Before you go to lengths concerning the tune, make damn sure that you don't have any vacuum leaks that are allowing any extra air to enter post TB before messing w\ the tune........this can also cause\influence this issue.

The best method is a smoke leak test run thru the entire induction system then don't forget to also test the EVAP system while you're at it.........fix wherever\whatever you find the smoke leaking out of\from.

Please don't get into the habit of using a tune to mask over mechanical issues..........your prospective tuner will appreciate it.

My 2 cents..............
 

86GT351

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Only thing I'll add to all of this...................

Before you go to lengths concerning the tune, make damn sure that you don't have any vacuum leaks that are allowing any extra air to enter post TB before messing w\ the tune........this can also cause\influence this issue.

The best method is a smoke leak test run thru the entire induction system then don't forget to also test the EVAP system while you're at it.........fix wherever\whatever you find the smoke leaking out of\from.

Please don't get into the habit of using a tune to mask over mechanical issues..........your prospective tuner will appreciate it.

My 2 cents..............
Very good points.
 

Dino Dino Bambino

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Hello, I have a 06 GT 4.6 5 speed and the rpm’s don’t come down fast enough. Really makes for a slow shift. The car knock on wood idles well any other time. Would a tune fix this issue? I bought the car not knowing if it has a tune or not. Any way to find out? Also I heard that’s there’s a way to put the car into a stock sport mode or something like that. It’s got bbk headers, jlt warm air intake, exhaust as far as I can tell. Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Frank

View attachment 116405
Your car's ECU will definitely have a tune. Since you have the earlier generation JLT CAI, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a BAMA tune. A new tune will almost certainly fix the rev hang and I suggest you try Lito or Brenspeed.
BTW your car looks badass!
 

StockishS197

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Your car's ECU will definitely have a tune. Since you have the earlier generation JLT CAI, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a BAMA tune. A new tune will almost certainly fix the rev hang and I suggest you try Lito or Brenspeed.
BTW your car looks badass!
Second plug for Lito here. Guy is the 3v GOAT. Still answers my questions 2 years after my initial tuning sessions and the throttle tuning is absolutely second to none.

Coming from a guy who also took the time/classes to tune my own car in between to learn more, Litos tune is still magical.
 
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Only thing I'll add to all of this...................

Before you go to lengths concerning the tune, make damn sure that you don't have any vacuum leaks that are allowing any extra air to enter post TB before messing w\ the tune........this can also cause\influence this issue.

The best method is a smoke leak test run thru the entire induction system then don't forget to also test the EVAP system while you're at it.........fix wherever\whatever you find the smoke leaking out of\from.

Please don't get into the habit of using a tune to mask over mechanical issues..........your prospective tuner will appreciate it.

My 2 cents..............
How do you smoke test the EVAP ?
 

2ndstang84

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Thank you all for the feedback. I have noticed a difference in the shifting by letting off the gas slightly before shifting!! Going to do the smoke test and then probably the tune from Lito. I also noticed that the maf sensor screws were not all the way tight. Weren’t crazy loose but I got two turns on them. Right after car threw a po172 code for rich 1st bank. I cleared it and drove it all day and hasn’t came back on. I’m thinking there might have been a small leak letting air in and when I tightened the two screws the ecu had to recalibrate.. maybe?? We will see if it comes back on. Does seem to be come down somewhat quicker.
 

GlassTop09

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How do you smoke test the EVAP ?
Disconnect the EVAP inlet line from the CPV (canister purge valve)....on 07-10 MY S197's (Ford changed the CPV design that removed the EVAP line connector port on the inlet CPV port.......this is still located on OEM original CPV's for 05-06 MY S197's.....that haven't already been replaced yet & install smoke detector output hose to the EVAP inlet line connector (or use an EVAP port connector to hook up to the 05-06 MY CPV EVAP port on inlet of CPV.........) if you can fab up a spare EVAP inlet line connector male insert this will be easier, but if you have a tapered hose insert you can wrap some electrical tape around it to help it to seal off against the connector's inner O-ring then wedge it into the EVAP inlet line connector to load up the entire EVAP system w\ smoke & air pressure.

You will want to use a self-contained smoke leak detector (has its own internal low-pressure 12v+ air compressor designed for testing EVAP systems) that also has an air flow meter on it w\ a metering ball to indicate the actual air volume being sent into the system........this is used to size up the severity of a leak when the EVAP system is fully closed up (ball should drop to 0 if no leaks are present) along w\ smoke to detect the actual leak (s) location(s) to make repairs.

Technically, you want to use a smoke tester that can use either N2 or CO2 instead of ambient air to test EVAP systems for obvious reasons (presence of fuel vapors.......), but these self-contained low pressure\volume testers can be used successfully as well.......just use a little common sense (no smoking or creating sparks.....) around the EVAP canister area during actual test period.

To close the EVAP system to pressure it up, you'll need a scan tool that has bidirectional control capability to actuate the EVAP CVS (canister vent solenoid) to close & seal system up.......or rig up a 30' harness w\ a rocker switch to connect to 12v+ power source then use blind box connectors to access the EVAP CVS thru the harness connector located in lft side of the EVAP canister to close the system up (PCM uses this CVS to run its EVAP test.....this solenoid is NO thus needs power to close it to seal the EVAP system to perform the pressure test.......just like the PCM does.

Send in the smoke w\ air flow & check the system while the CVS is NO to ensure that the EVAP air inlet vent line isn't restricted\blocked (should see smoke coming out of it w\ the air flow) then once this is verified, activate the CVS to close up the system then look for any smoke coming out of the system, starting from the inlet line at CPV thruout to the CVS......including the gas tank cap. Wherever you see smoke coming out, there is a leak that needs repairing..........bad thing is that Ford has discontinued selling the complete EVAP replacement kit for these cars, so you'll have to go aftermarket for parts........which will be scarce.......most only sell the EVAP canister itself, or EVAP canister w\ CVS, or CVS itself or the FTP sensor itself--splice in kit--but NO replacement lines or hoses thus McGuyvering is your only respite.....includes the junkyards for last resort....ie, Russian roulette on finding good EVAP lines on 12-21 yr old cars.........so be advised.

Here is the post of me actually doing this test on my car some 6 yrs ago:

https://www.s197forum.com/threads/lunati-voodoo-21270700-camshafts.136257/page-3# post 60

These EVAP systems are overlooked due to most folks looking for a MIL, but these can leak very badly before a MIL shows up & cause excessive air entry due to the EVAP outlet corrugated plastic line cracking allowing air to get drawn in bypassing the EVAP canister causing lean spikes into IM........especially if the CPV is also bad--this valve is NC so needs power to open. The seat in the CPV is the issue......if it is bad, the IM is constantly drawing excess air\fuel fumes (over purging the EVAP canister.......) that the PCM has to constantly try to account for, usually w\o success.........is the #1 cause of P0420\P0430 Catalyst Inefficiency DTC's from the excess air purge causing the rear cat O2 sensors to start tracking the front O2 sensors switching...........is also the #1 mistake most tuners & owners make when tuning these cars w\o checking these for integrity then shutting the EVAP system down in PCM\disconnecting from IM prior MAF calibration (will skew any MAF calibration as PCM will be running EVAP purge cycles in background).......nobody teaches or mentions this in any tuning materials that I've seen.........even Greg Banish.......no O2 sensor--even WB O2 sensors--can correct for this. This will throw the PCM off on catalyst monitoring\efficiency adjustments as well causing the same P0420\P0430 Catalyst Inefficiency DTC's as well as causing engine fueling imbalances........a LOT of good cats have been replaced due to these EVAP systems not getting properly checked\repaired or tested 1st to prove the cats have actually failed before spending money on cat replacement.

Hope this helps.
 

GriffX

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RPM decay between shifts is a function of the tune - combination of dashpot tables and decel spark. A tune can make RPM decay more aggressive up to a point.
That is what I don't understand. If I release the pedal, the TB should close and the engine should not rev up. None of my other cars, who have all electronic TBs, have this.
 

StockishS197

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That is what I don't understand. If I release the pedal, the TB should close and the engine should not rev up. None of my other cars, who have all electronic TBs, have this.
If you have throttle flair when you clutch in, it’s likely a tuning related issue. There are air adder tables that are there to help soften OEM drivability and help smooth shifting - remember ford had to design these cars so everyone could drive them from the factory.

Some tuners don’t touch/modify those tables for simplicity, but Lito’s tuning makes it feel like a cable driven throttle body.

Here’s a video of my cars part throttle, and this is another fantastic example of Lito’s throttle tuning. Don’t mind the CEL.
 
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GriffX

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it’s likely a tuning related issue.
Well, the stock "tune" configuration has the same and the newer stock S550 also. My guess Ford focused on automatic transmission cars much more than on manual with driving. In automatic cars there is no need to release the pedal before shifting. And in automatic cars there is no sudden drop of mechanical engine load which you have when you press the clutch.
Where do I have to look at in your video?

BTW: How high does your engine revs at cold start on idle. These 5 seconds catalytic converter heat up cycle? I annoy my neighbors ;)
 

StockishS197

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Well, the stock "tune" configuration has the same and the newer stock S550 also. My guess Ford focused on automatic transmission cars much more than on manual with driving. In automatic cars there is no need to release the pedal before shifting. And in automatic cars there is no sudden drop of mechanical engine load which you have when you press the clutch.
Where do I have to look at in your video?

BTW: How high does your engine revs at cold start on idle. These 5 seconds catalytic converter heat up cycle? I annoy my neighbors ;)
For the vid, it’s just showing how off throttle there is no RPM spike between shifts and clutch in.

Cold start RPM adder is also a tune function, mostly added for emissions/catalyst heating. I played with this a bit during my own tuning to tame down cold starts to moderate success. If you have cams, lowering the spike may also cause some misfire codes/idle stability
 

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