05 - M-90 and Nitrous

[Zrxpilot]

Currently have a stock 05 with an M-90 on the bench just waiting for me to get the time to put it on. Been reading posts that a 3V motor even with an M-90 is not going to pull a stock 5.0. Fine. It is not my intention to start a debate here. I will just for the moment accept that as the truth and get on with my life.

Anyways..considering nitrous in addition to the blower but dont know much about it. Have read the 3v stock motors have a safe threshold of 500 hp before things get "iffy". I have no intention of pulling the motor and putting in a beefier bottom end. Not till it breaks anyways.

Assuming the m-90 is going to bring my rear wheel numbers to around 380 (or not??) how big of a shot of nitrous could I run thru this thing?

And is it relatively safe? I read where some guys run nitrous all the time with no ill effects. Would have to consider plugs as well. The SC requires different plugs and thinking I would have to find a happy medium in there somewhere.

 

[2007Vert]

Your tune will be very important to how much rwhp your bottom end will handle. I have always heard that the threshold number is 450 for the 3v. I have never used nitrous but again the tune will be very important for how long your bottom end holds up.

I have an 07 with all the bolt ons - cams, headers, gears and suspension work. I also have a 5.0. The 5.0 stock will walk all over the 07 which fairly modified. I had my 5.0 dynoed at 375 rwhp in stock trim. Steeda CAI and Bama race tune were added over the winter so it should have over 400 rwhp. My neighbor has an 05 with the same setup as my 07 and is in the process of adding a Vortech blower. He expects 425-450 after the blower upgrade. We are going to the track once he is finished.

 

[jeffie on juice]

do METH instead

 

[GerRod]

Your tune will be very important to how much rwhp your bottom end will handle. I have always heard that the threshold number is 450 for the 3v. I have never used nitrous but again the tune will be very important for how long your bottom end holds up.

I have an 07 with all the bolt ons - cams, headers, gears and suspension work. I also have a 5.0. The 5.0 stock will walk all over the 07 which fairly modified. I had my 5.0 dynoed at 375 rwhp in stock trim. Steeda CAI and Bama race tune were added over the winter so it should have over 400 rwhp. My neighbor has an 05 with the same setup as my 07 and is in the process of adding a Vortech blower. He expects 425-450 after the blower upgrade. We are going to the track once he is finished.

Not to hijack the thread but I was hoping a full Bolton cammed 3v would put up a better fight against a stock 5.0. Perhaps your Vert being a few hundred pounds heavier hurt the outcome???

 

[BruceH]

Since the M90 isn't installed yet why not sell it and get something that will make the power you are aiming for without nitrous?

IMO your post indicates you will end up replacing it sometime in the future anyway. It's worth alot more new than used.

 

[Riptide]

Agreed. Turbocharger or twin screw - FTW

 

[RickG9]

Just curious, what version of the M90 do you have? There are probably 100 different variations of that supercharger, not all of them would be good candidates for installing on a 4.6 3v. 2 or 3 of the most common versions are from different years of the GM 3800 and are pretty specific in their case design to fit the particular application they were made for.

Another factor to keep in mind is the amount of air flow the M90 is capable of. It's a great unit for pulling 300-350 HP out of a V6, or even the older 5.0L pushrod motor that was only 225HP from the factory. Asking it to add a substantial amount of HP to an engine that already makes 300+ may be pushing it beyond it's efficient operating range, which might be the basis for that M90 3V vs stock 5.0L 4V debate you refered to. Increasing HP is about increasing airflow, so just because the M90 can easily add 100+ HP to a 200-250 HP stock engine, doesn't mean it can make that same increase on a 300HP engine.

Just food for thought. Anyway, to your original question, combining power adders is were things can go trajically wrong in a hurry. As someone else pointed out, having the correct tune in your ECM will be the key to keeping your engine alive, and that's assuming you don't dump more NOS in the motor than the basic shortblock is capable of.

Let's make a couple of assumptions here; assuming you can in fact get 380 rwhp with your M90, and going by the commonly held belief that 500HP - or around 450 rwhp - is the limit for the stock short block, some simple math tells you 70 rwhp is all you can safely add with NOS before you enter dangerous territory. A 100HP NOS kit might be OK, but it also might be just enough break things. Considering the complexity of trying to tune the engine for 2 different power adders, not to mention the cost and labor involved of installing NOS just to get 70 more HP to the tires, I think a better option might be to forget the M90 and buy a pre-engineered supercharger kit with intercooler to reach the max safe power your stock 3V is capable of. If a stock 5.0L is dynoing at 375 rwhp (sounds realistic with a 412 HP advertised rating), I'm pretty sure you can find a bolt on supercharger kit that will put you at 400 or more rwhp (a 475HP kit should be pretty close to that), and do it safely. You should be able to hang with a new GT at that point. If the new GT's are still embarrassing you (hard to believe, should be a close race if nothing else), you can add 3.73 gears to the rear to get that last bit of extra thrust you'd need to pull ahead.

Of course winning a drag race (or just an impromptu stop light race) is about torque and traction, not HP. Having said that, the same supercharger kit I mentioned to get you at the HP levels you want will also provide the needed torque to run with a coyote, the issue will more likely be traction, rather a lack of it. Supercharged engines are notorious for blistering torque fairly low in the rpm band, which usually means smoking the tires instead of race winning acceleration. You'll have to practice your launch technique and keep plenty of cash on hand for frequent rear tire replacement to make the most of the new power

 

[BruceH]

FYI, the M90 Roushcharger is a pre engineered kit with tune, intercooler, complete. Roush blew them out a few months ago for around $3800. Some were getting them as low as $3200 from wholesalers.

 

[bullitt2086]

With the m90 you can probably squeeze out close to 450 rwhp with a few bolt ons and a good tune.

 

[BruceH]

With the m90 you can probably squeeze out close to 450 rwhp with a few bolt ons and a good tune.

Got a dyno sheet to back that up with?

 

[Zrxpilot]

Thanks for the postings, especially RickG9. Have in hand a new Roush M-90 kit. I have some motivation to keep it all Roush for no other reason than I think it adds value to the car whereas mixing with other brands adds little or no value. Its a theory. Right or wrong, its what I believe. The m-90 fit the budget.

It will also be a daily driver (probably not, but want to build it as if it was) that my wife will also be driving from time to time. Probably wont be regular at the track as their are none within 100 miles of me.

Short question is how much nitrous does it take to hit 65-80 rwhp and is this safe running the blower.

Sounds like tuning is going to be a nightmare but I have a hard time believeing nobody has this set-up allready. Lots of 3v mustangs out there and lots of m-90's on top of them.

 

[Mikes_BLK_GT]

By the time you add what you need for a safe nitrous setup you may as well just get a bigger blower kit IMO. That's the reason I went with the Roush TVS instead of the M-90. I will most likely never get to the 700hp numbers they claim on the TVS but I have an SC kit with which I can grow and add to later if I choose.

Also as stated above their are kits to upgrade your M-90, try VMP or JDM. VMP claims 500hp(crank) on their M-90 upgrade and is only about 600 bucks if you have a tuner already.

 

[mynameismike65]

sell me the M90 for 3k and whipple it j/k I agree with the above though, sell the M90 and go a different route. Unless you have a tuner you trust a lot, it can get a bit hairy running nitrous and a blower on a stock motor car. In the end, it will cost you just as much to get the parts for the nitorus system, and tune the car for the M90 and nitrous, as it would to just pick up a whipple kit (and it will probably be more reliable) or something similar. just my opinion though

 

[HOLYWD]

Damn 5.0's

 

[bullitt2086]

Unfortunately I don't have a dyno sheet to prove anything because I don't own a m90 but I have researched and found a few people on these forums with them pushing 450 rwhp...

 

[mwall787]

Come on over to fnsweet.com and talk to the roush guys there....most of them will recommend the TVS, but there are many of them making 430 to 440 RWHP with the M90, a 2.57 snout pulley, a 10% overdrive crank pulley, a set of long tubes, cold air kit, and tune (VMP or JDM sell kits for this). This would also require either the GT500 pump setup or a kenne bell boost a pump.

 

[Mustang30212]

Got a dyno sheet to back that up with?

I have a dyno sheet with me making 410 to the rear tires on an otherwise BONE stock 05...so 450 is not out of the question at all with some bolt ons.

RH

 

[BruceH]

Unfortunately I don't have a dyno sheet to prove anything because I don't own a m90 but I have researched and found a few people on these forums with them pushing 450 rwhp...

I asked you because 450 is thrown around like it's no big deal and real easy to do. Some have but I think most will tell you if they were to do it over they would just get a tvs.

Come on over to fnsweet.com and talk to the roush guys there....most of them will recommend the TVS, but there are many of them making 430 to 440 RWHP with the M90, a 2.57 snout pulley, a 10% overdrive crank pulley, a set of long tubes, cold air kit, and tune (VMP or JDM sell kits for this). This would also require either the GT500 pump setup or a kenne bell boost a pump.

I'm not sure if you were addressing me or not. I have no problem believing that. I do wonder what the IATs are.

I have a dyno sheet with me making 410 to the rear tires on an otherwise BONE stock 05...so 450 is not out of the question at all with some bolt ons.

RH

Sounds about right. I think you would have a hard time bolting on 40 more. But that's just me. More power to you if do it. Your might want to think about more fuel.

 

[Mustang30212]

Sounds about right. I think you would have a hard time bolting on 40 more. But that's just me. More power to you if do it. Your might want to think about more fuel.

So you dont' think a good set of LT's...off road X....maybe a larger t/b would net me another 30-40HP?????

I have an upgraded fuel system already...so that would not be an issue either.

RH

 

[Mustang30212]

BTW...the 410 was on a 96 degree day with 95% humidity in Georgia...lol.

RH