2008 ROUSH Stage 3 Build...Take III

[Roush fun]

I want a set of those stock wheels for my roush, dont suppose your selling any. The previous owner of my car put saleen wheels on it and i couldnt leave them.

 

[AutoXRacer]

"Track day went without issues. I did install a big blower pulley to reduce boost; ended up with 10 PSI. My street/drag pulley makes 14 PSI.

On the road course, I hit IATs of 175* on decel. Man I never realized how hot things got on the road course."

........................................................................................................................

175 deg F IATs on deceleration ! WTF happened there ? Per lingenfelter, your
mezziere 20/55 gpm pump is not doing much in the way of gpm...maybe 5/6 gpm at most.

Heck, your iat is sky high...and that's with 10 psi boost. Does anybody know what pump is used on the 13/14 GT-500 ? That might do the job better..or 2 of em in series. Perhaps run any IC pump on 17vdc. (Those mezziere pumps are supposed to run on 16vdc). One of those unregulated 12-14 vdc in..and a constant regulated 17 vdc output dc-dc converters might do the trick. BAP etc.

What else that might just work is a fead driven IC water pump. Then you have some hp to drive it at least. Flip side is gpm would rise+ fall with rpm. Ok, how did ur rear axle end up askew? I can't see how ur car would even stay straight. I checked my 2010..with 285-40-18's..and gap is identical on both sides.

LOL...
Jimbo, 175* IAT at decel is quite normal on a road course... Once I gave it throttle input, my IAT instantly dropped to the 140 range and 130s at WOT. But as soon as that throttle body closed, the IATs jumped to 175*s...

20 mins of continuous WOT, 2000 plus degrees generated by brakes, etc...the whole car becomes a hot potato.

In comparison, when I was drag racing for two days straight, my IATs were in the low 130s in the staging lines and dropped to high teens when going WOT.

Track days are the most brutal thing you can expose your car too... Nothing compares.

I spoke to Justin a while back and he did suggest I get rid of the Meziere pump and go with a 2013-2014 GT500 coolant pump; that it flowed around 8 or so GPM. He claimed the Meziere did not flow the "claimed" 20 gpm...that it may even flow less than the 2013-2014 GT500 pump.

Regarding the axle, measure hub to hub. I guarantee you that your axle will be at least 0.25" off side to side unless you have adjustable LCAs. My neighbor checked his (bone stock 2006) and its 0.50" off. All S197s have this issue.

Its not noticeable with near stock sized wheels/tires.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I want a set of those stock wheels for my roush, dont suppose your selling any. The previous owner of my car put saleen wheels on it and i couldnt leave them.

Which wheels are you looking for? The ROUSH casted 18" wheels are a lot easier to find.

The forged ones that came with the Stage 3s, P-51s, Black Jacks, and TrakPaks are impossible to find. I looked for 4 years to find two extra forged wheels.

No, I am not selling them...unless you want to buy the whole car, then I will include all the wheels (6), original ROUSH interior, plus the current interior, spare body kit, etc...

 

[blownGTvert]

LOL...
Jimbo, 175* IAT at decel is quite normal on a road course... Once I gave it throttle input, my IAT instantly dropped to the 140 range and 130s at WOT. But as soon as that throttle body closed, the IATs jumped to 175*s...

20 mins of continuous WOT, 2000 plus degrees generated by brakes, etc...the whole car becomes a hot potato.

In comparison, when I was drag racing for two days straight, my IATs were in the low 130s in the staging lines and dropped to high teens when going WOT.

Track days are the most brutal thing you can expose your car too... Nothing compares.

I spoke to Justin a while back and he did suggest I get rid of the Meziere pump and go with a 2013-2014 GT500 coolant pump; that it flowed around 8 or so GPM. He claimed the Meziere did not flow the "claimed" 20 gpm...that it may even flow less than the 2013-2014 GT500 pump.

Regarding the axle, measure hub to hub. I guarantee you that your axle will be at least 0.25" off side to side unless you have adjustable LCAs. My neighbor checked his (bone stock 2006) and its 0.50" off. All S197s have this issue.

Its not noticeable with near stock sized wheels/tires.

The part number for the 13/14 GT500 pump is in this thread. http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113548

 

[Pentalab]

The 13/14 GT-500 cars use a Pierburg pump DR3Z-8501-A.

U may be able to get this from tasca etc..standard ford part now.
That 20 'gpm' mezziere pump won't even flow anywhere near 20 gpm..with 2" fire hose on each side..with input into a 55 gal drum of water.... and output side spilling onto the ground. Per ligenfelter, the 20 gpm mezziere flowed exactly .1 gpm more than the stock bosch pump. ( bosch pump that is used on the 07-12 GT-500 cars and roush m90 /TVS-2300 kits). Tests done by other's indicate the 20 gpm unit flowed the same..or slightly less than the oem bosch.

Ligenfelter never did test the 13/14 GT-500 Pierburg pump DR3Z-8501-A. It's supposed to flow almost double the Bosch. I'm sure ford engineers would have done analysis on pump selection on a 600+ rwhp car. IMO increasing the flow rate..even a little bit would make a big improvement. IE: going from 5 to 6 gpm is a 20% increase. I believe the Pierburg pump flowed aprx 8 gpm, installed in the loop. From 5 gpm to say a conservative 7 gpm is a 40% increase..and that's a whopping increase in flow rate.

You might want to seriously consider it as a viable option. It would make for an excellent experiment. No point in having a big IC and even bigger HE, de-gas etc.... then negate it all with a low flow pump.

 

[hamish]

Has anyone tested that pump?

 

[Wes06]

The Ligenfelter or the '13 gt500 pump?
DOB was doing some testing. Not sure if they did the new oem pump

 

[blownGTvert]

Has anyone tested that pump?

My non scientific data by looking inside the tank is that it flows a LOT more than the Bosch pump. It's a $230 pump directly from Ford parts.

 

[d3vst8r96gt]

The lightning guys run marine pumps Rule of jabsco..... I have the jabsco.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

 

[hamish]

^ fully submerged pumps?

 

[Pentalab]

My non scientific data by looking inside the tank is that it flows a LOT more than the Bosch pump. It's a $230 pump directly from Ford parts.

This looks like the real deal. BTW, the DR3Z-8501 is NOT the 13/14 GT-500 pump..it's the old bosch 07-12 pump...also used by roush and others. Your's sez.. DR3V-8009-A on the label in your pix. Does it suck any more current vs the Bosch pump ?

OK, here's some cool info for you folks..and verifies some things I always suspected.... like if you want to double flow rate, the pressure has to be quadrupled...same as for air pumps. IE: pressure requirements increase to the square of the flow ratios. If you want to triple the gpm, u require 9 x the pressure. As seen on his test graph, the pumps all fell short. Then he tried two and also 3 x oem Bosch pumps in series..with surprising results. Ditto with 2 and 3 jabsco cyclone pumps in series. http://caddyinfo.com/wordpress/gonna-pump-you-up-intercooler-pumps-in-series-to-maximize-cooling-motorama/

Note his heat transfer data circles are in kw. 1 kw = 3150 BTU.

For a cost effective setup, a single or two of the 13/14 GT-500 pumps in series would be the ticket. Even a 2nd oem Bosch pump in series with the existing Bosch would provide a significant increase in flow. ( and without having to suck much current, at only 4A per pump). Sure, that sped up Stewart EMP pump looks cool, but the damned thing sucks 25A.

Gerald, are you using a glycol-distilled water mix in your IC loop ? 100% distilled water + water wetter (for summer time) on paper, should be far more effective at extracting heat inside the IC.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Gerald, are you using a glycol-distilled water mix in your IC loop ? 100% distilled water + water wetter (for summer time) on paper, should be far more effective at extracting heat inside the IC.

I'm using premixed prestone coolant/antifreeze and water wetter mix.

 

[d3vst8r96gt]

^ fully submerged pumps?

Inline.

29gpm
3/4 in and out

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

 

[hamish]

O.k. I was thinking of the rule pumps.

 

[d3vst8r96gt]

O.k. I was thinking of the rule pumps.

I think the rule 2000s are the submerged pump and o have seen them used too

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

 

[Pentalab]

The rule submerged pump ..as depicted in the gm fellows other various tests on his site..flowed ok..but not into any amount of back pressure. This is where all these pumps fall short, loads of gpm..into zero restriction. Put enough restriction on them..and flow drops to almost nil.... but pressure increases. That is fine for stuff like a bilge pump for a boat, but not a restrictive ic -he loop. DOB got around the problem by removing the 3/4" bottle neck points at the in + out of the ic-he-de-gas etc. Make everything 1.25"..including hoses, and now the pumps flow a little better. Place two pumps in series and flow increases a bunch more.

That jabsco cyclone pump is good.... but flows less than 2 x bosch oem pumps in series. 2 x cyclones in series is better than 3 x bocsh's.
The cyclone flows 29 gpm.... but only at extremely low pressures..like .1 psi..if you extrapolate the graph way off to the right side. 29 gpm is like 110 litres per min. His graphs ends at 40 Litres per min at extreme right.

 

[eighty6gt]

I run the 2013 GT500 pump and it's like a hurricane in the degas. Pretty awesome. IAT's are 112 cruising at 80 degrees, less when I'm hammering on it. Worse 140 after heat soaking parked, but quickly drop after a block of when driving, into the 120's. I'm using the large Roush single pass front hot side rad. Unless I've parked the car the intercooler water is always cool to the touch.

Looking at water/meth next year because the 91 fuel here is causing grief at 8.5 psi, IMO. Might install nozzles right into the lower intake, after the blower outlet.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I run the 2013 GT500 pump and it's like a hurricane in the degas. Pretty awesome. IAT's are 112 cruising at 80 degrees, less when I'm hammering on it. Worse 140 after heat soaking parked, but quickly drop after a block of when driving, into the 120's. I'm using the large Roush single pass front hot side rad. Unless I've parked the car the intercooler water is always cool to the touch.

Looking at water/meth next year because the 91 fuel here is causing grief at 8.5 psi, IMO. Might install nozzles right into the lower intake, after the blower outlet.

Those are the same temps I get during full blown summer...
I'm still intrigued by the 2013/14 GT500 pump though. May be a winter project.

Regarding water/meth...don't do it.
Plus, let me know if you figure out how to install nozzles into the manifold.
I looked into it and it was impossible to get an ideal installation.

 

[hamish]

^This pump needs a test to see what it can do.
Somebody get a bucket and get to work!

 

[eighty6gt]

I was going to test the 2013 pump but ran out of time this spring, got the car going a month late.

As for water/meth, I was going to drill and tap the intake itself. I haven't looked lately but it seems to me I could go just under the blower mounting surface, with a pair of nozzles spraying out into the opening over top of the heat exchanger. The spacer plates for carb apps have the meth nozzles flush with the inside of the spacer. This is not a heavily loaded area, I don't think drilling the casting would have any negative effects on its structure, especially a 1/4 hole at worst. There is no water back there, afaik.

Also looking at the killer chiller, but I like the aspect of adding a similar amount of extra failure prone junk at a lower cost and not having to muck around with the a/c system. Also, the octane factor.