2008 ROUSH Stage 3 Build...Take III

[Pentalab]

Jimbo, why did you sell your 1.9L VMP TVS!!??

You would have enjoyed cooler IATs...seems like you are very concerned with those temps.

BTW, new LCAs and springs get here tomorrow!!

I don't trust the pretzel stick rods...nor the pos 5r55 auto tranny. I now see on VMP's site that the 75mm pulley is for low mileage cars...<50k miles. And the even smaller 72mm pulley is for really low mileage cars. What I suspected all along on the oem 4.6 eng is the rods will eventually succumb to metal fatigue. If I bent or broke a rod, I'd be just pissed. If I took out the 5r55 auto tranny, I'd be livid. Even with a built eng, I'd need a built auto tranny, or put in a 6060 or T-56. The prospect of replacing the entire drive train at this point in time is a bit much.

After driving a few of the 11-15 cars..and esp the new 15 car, I think it's prudent not to sink any more $ into my 2010...now with 44K miles on it. The 2015 PP is a dream to drive...bone stock.

On a 'hot' day, like 75-85F in the shade, IAT's while cruising sit at aprx 128, then drop to the 121 range with your foot into it. They only come back up a few degs with blower on for like 5-8 secs at a time. In stop and go traffic around town, it will sit at 132-135 F. No big deal. It's when parked at the store for half hr on a hot day that problems start. Fire eng up..and in an underground parking lot,in the shade, IAT's start at 150F...then rapidly decrease to 145F within 15 secs..then drop to 135F within 2 blocks. Parked in the sun, the worse I have seen after 1/2 hr is a whopping 175F. Which rapidly drops off after 3-5 blocks..then levels off at 132-135 F.

Funny thing is at night, even with 59F last night, IAT is still 121 F, cruising down main drag at 35 mph. But I only have 5.8 psi boost..with blower on. 86GT has a built eng..and can fully utilize the TVS-1900. If I do anything, it's either a 2nd Bosch pump in series with oem, or a 13/14 GT-500 pump, that's it. It needs a bit more flow during summer months.

Ok, why is your 3rd eng gobbling up oil ? I don't use any, and change the oil every 6 months. Catch can is 2/3 full every few months that's it.

 

[Pentalab]

I've got a lower boost setup and Just datalogged 100% distilled water and water wetter.

4* drop in AIT temps compared to yesterdays runs with 50/50 water glycol.

I suspect with a bigger pump, like that 13/14 unit, you would really see a big drop. Then you could really take advantage of the 100% distilled water + water wetter. From a ripple to a jacuzzi is more than a subtle increase.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Ok, why is your 3rd eng gobbling up oil ? I don't use any, and change the oil every 6 months. Catch can is 2/3 full every few months that's it.

Because its a built motor with low tension rings. The more I research the more I find owners of built motors in the same situation. They all consume oil when you use specialty rings (like the stainless steel rings).

If I were to do it over, I would ask for moly rings (like the OEM uses). These rings are easy to seat and pretty much tight with no oil consumption.

The limitations of the moly rings is that they don't like heat and high pressure. Some say they are good up to 1000HP...but most engine builders stay away from them with boosted motors.

If there is a next time, I am going to use moly rings.

 

[Pentalab]

How are you folks plumbing the IC-HE etc?

Starting at the IC output...mine goes to the input of the de-gas.... then output of de-gas goes over to input of pump. Output of pump goes to input of HE. Output of HE goes back to input of IC.....completing the loop.

If the coolant actually boiled inside the IC.... the next place it shows up is inside the de-gas. Surely one would see sky high temps inside the de-gas ? Without a sensor or probe inside the de-gas.... it's all speculation. Without some way of measuring it, you would have to stop at the end of the drag strip...jump out and open the hood asap...or ditto at the road course.

 

[Pentalab]

Because its a built motor with low tension rings. The more I research the more I find owners of built motors in the same situation. They all consume oil when you use specialty rings (like the stainless steel rings).

If I were to do it over, I would ask for moly rings (like the OEM uses). These rings are easy to seat and pretty much tight with no oil consumption.

The limitations of the moly rings is that they don't like heat and high pressure. Some say they are good up to 1000HP...but most engine builders stay away from them with boosted motors.

If there is a next time, I am going to use moly rings.

What do they use in the 13/14 GT-500 ? They don't consume oil. They typ dyno at 618 rwhp, isn't that enough ?

 

[eighty6gt]

Hehe, I wish I had a built engine. Building up savings instead. Maybe next year. I have the 82mm pulley on the 1.9, 8.5-9 psi.

 

[Saleen304]

Because its a built motor with low tension rings. The more I research the more I find owners of built motors in the same situation. They all consume oil when you use specialty rings (like the stainless steel rings).

If I were to do it over, I would ask for moly rings (like the OEM uses). These rings are easy to seat and pretty much tight with no oil consumption.

The limitations of the moly rings is that they don't like heat and high pressure. Some say they are good up to 1000HP...but most engine builders stay away from them with boosted motors.

If there is a next time, I am going to use moly rings.

You sure it has to do with your SS top ring? That isn't the ring that controls oil. I would look at your oil rings first. Make sure they are std tension. Also, is your second ring a Napier style? That also aids in oil control by scraping the cylinder. I am just learning about all of this stuff in preparation for my re-build. I didn't burn any oil and I don't want to start.

 

[AutoXRacer]

What do they use in the 13/14 GT-500 ? They don't consume oil. They typ dyno at 618 rwhp, isn't that enough ?

OEM always uses moly type rings. That RWHP seems a little high.
But I know of a few 5.0L Coyote guys running built motors with std moly rings. But they have to be careful of their power levels (limited to below 1000HP). Like I said, it really depends on your engine builder. Some don't feel comfortable with using moly rings in boosted/high heat applications. If you take one of those 13/14 GT500 on the road course, it will consume oil.

Corvettes also have a note in the owners manual that the motor will consume 1 quart of oil on a track day.

You sure it has to do with your SS top ring? That isn't the ring that controls oil. I would look at your oil rings first. Make sure they are std tension. Also, is your second ring a Napier style? That also aids in oil control by scraping the cylinder. I am just learning about all of this stuff in preparation for my re-build. I didn't burn any oil and I don't want to start.

Both rings are SS...not just the top. Both rings are low tension to reduce friction. Not sure about the oil rings...but my guess is that they are also low tension.

What is a Napier style ring?

What kind of rings do you currently have in your motor?

 

[Saleen304]

OEM always uses moly type rings. That RWHP seems a little high.
But I know of a few 5.0L Coyote guys running built motors with std moly rings. But they have to be careful of their power levels (limited to below 1000HP). Like I said, it really depends on your engine builder. Some don't feel comfortable with using moly rings in boosted/high heat applications. If you take one of those 13/14 GT500 on the road course, it will consume oil.

Corvettes also have a note in the owners manual that the motor will consume 1 quart of oil on a track day.



Both rings are SS...not just the top. Both rings are low tension to reduce friction. Not sure about the oil rings...but my guess is that they are also low tension.

What is a Napier style ring?

What kind of rings do you currently have in your motor?

Look up Napier ring and you will see what I am talking about. It has a hook on the end of the ring that helps to scrape the cylinder and with oil control. I see no reason to use low tension oil rings. That is most likely why you are using oil.

My engine was built by Techco and uses the standard Saleen setup. Kellogg 3.8 stroke crank, Manley H beam rods, and CP pistons with SS top ring and Napier 2nd.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Wish mine was like that.

I'm not using those damn steel rings again.

 

[swflastang05]

L&M Racing Engines told me moly rings have no business in any boosted motor, they flat out just don't belong in that application, which is why I used steel rings. Mine does not use any oil either BTW. I know some have had success with moly in high hp motors but I trust L&M's expertise.

 

[AutoXRacer]

L&M Racing Engines told me moly rings have no business in any boosted motor, they flat out just don't belong in that application, which is why I used steel rings. Mine does not use any oil either BTW. I know some have had success with moly in high hp motors but I trust L&M's expertise.

That's what my builder said too.

 

[AutoXRacer]

After my ordeal with the humungous drag tires I decided to get adjustable lower control arms and new springs. The rear axle is skewed (not square to the body).

So I removed my rear Steeda sport springs that I have not been too happy with. Spoke with Kelly from BMR and he sent me some springs along with adjustable LCA.

I have only replaced the rear springs and LCA due to time constraints and took the car for a quick drive. OMG!!! The BMR springs brought new life to the handling!! Its smooth, I am no longer bouncing in my seat!! It actually absorbs the bumps and dips in the road without bottoming out. Its a huge difference!!

If any of you have Steeda Sport springs in your cars, get rid of them!!!
I have been dealing with the passenger side over axle pipe slightly hitting the axle over deep dips and with the BMR springs, no more hitting.

The rear-end is dreamy smooth!!

Check out the differences between the springs:

The Steeda coils are so thin. I could not get over the physical differences.
These Sport springs are way too light (spring rate) for our cars!!

Lower control arms:

 

[RedfireV8]

If you don't mind sharing, what's the P/N on the new BMR springs? I feel like I haven't seen that design with the "tighter" wound coil in the middle... It looks unusually long too. I've heard of the "hour-glass" shape but this looks different... What was the drop?

 

[AutoXRacer]

These are progressive springs highly recommended by Kelly. So far "street" driving has been wonderful. 100 times better than these crappy ass Steeda Sport springs. I can't believe I've been driving with these... uh...

Part number is SP065 Lowering Springs, Set Of 4, 1.5" Drop, Handling, GT:
http://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&productid=1462&superpro=0

The drop is speced at 1.5"... They definitely sit taller than the Steeda Sports which are speced as a 1" drop for the front and 1.25" drop in the rear.

Interestingly enough, their website shows a different spring...looks like BMR's now.
When did they change the Sport design?
http://www.steeda.com/steeda-mustang-sport-springs-05-14-555-8216/

The video on this page shows the Sport springs I have.