2008 Stage 3 ROUSH - Rebirth...

[AutoXRacer]

Like I said, my setup is not off the shelf...its all custom. So the local builder couldn't find parts.

It will get all straightened out... We are at the home stretch; we can't give up now. lol
Everything is set...as soon as this piston/ring deal gets sorted out...our path is clear!!

Thanks Bruce... I'll keep you in mind just in case. lol

 

[cbracoupe]

This is a great thread! Fantastic really! Dig all the wright ups WITH detailed pics! Thanks!!

 

[bjtheman1]

Keeps getting better and better, keep up the good work.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Update:

Pistons are on their way back!!
We collectively decided to use them as is. Manley graciously provided a top ring set from Total Seal. I should have the pistons back to the shop by Friday at the latest along with oil pump, pickup tube, and oil pan.

As you recall, I will be installing a 2013 GT500 oil pan which has 8.5qt capacity IIRC.
The shop wants to verify pick up tube clearance. And make sure the oil pan is worthy enough for road racing.

Hopefully I will have all my parts back next week...predicting late next week...then its all up to me to put it all together. One thing I am dreading the most: degreeing my cams. lol

 

[skwerl]

Gerald, the cast aluminum oil pan is labeled as 8.5 quarts but you'll find it holds 8 quarts even including the oil filter. Pickup tube clearance is identical to the stock pan.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Gerald, the cast aluminum oil pan is labeled as 8.5 quarts but you'll find it holds 8 quarts even including the oil filter. Pickup tube clearance is identical to the stock pan.

Really? It holds 8 at the full indicator on the dip stick? I hate 0.5 oil capacities. lol You are always guessing how much more oil to put in and then you're left with half quart of oil laying around. lol

Since it was highly advised for me to go with ARP main bolt studs, according to the instructions from ARP, the oil dip stick post/pedestal needs to be shaved 0.070" to restore stock pick up tube clearance.

 

[DiMora]

Really? It holds 8 at the full indicator on the dip stick? I hate 0.5 oil capacities. lol You are always guessing how much more oil to put in and then your left with half quart of oil laying around. lol

Since it was highly advised for me to go with ARP main bolt studs, according to the instructions from ARP, the oil dip stick post/pedestal needs to be shaved 0.070" to restore stock pick up tube clearance.

Someone suffered a cracked block after torquing the ARP studs to ARP specs. I recall done builders using a value slightly less than what ARP calls for. You might search for that thread.

 

[JimIII@JDM]

Someone suffered a cracked block after torquing the ARP studs to ARP specs. I recall done builders using a value slightly less than what ARP calls for. You might search for that thread.

We torque the ARP main bolts as follows during a 4.6L Alum block build:

Inner: 60 ft/lbs with Moly lube
Outter: 22 ft/lbs with Moly lube

 

[JimIII@JDM]

Really? It holds 8 at the full indicator on the dip stick? I hate 0.5 oil capacities. lol You are always guessing how much more oil to put in and then your left with half quart of oil laying around. lol

Since it was highly advised for me to go with ARP main bolt studs, according to the instructions from ARP, the oil dip stick post/pedestal needs to be shaved 0.070" to restore stock pick up tube clearance.

Make sure you actually check the pick up tube to pan clearance as well, don't just shave it and not check it.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Someone suffered a cracked block after torquing the ARP studs to ARP specs. I recall done builders using a value slightly less than what ARP calls for. You might search for that thread.

According to ARP, they say to torque:
M10 studs to 60ft/lbs
M8 studs to 25ft/lbs

 

[AutoXRacer]

Make sure you actually check the pick up tube to pan clearance as well, don't just shave it and not check it.

The machine shop will be installing the oil pan and measuring the oil pickup tube clearance. They were pretty adamant about it even though I told them its a stock fitting setup. They are pretty thorough.


Update:
Dropped off the pistons, oil pan, oil pump, etc yesterday... Hopefully get a call next week to pick everything up.

Interesting that my new FRPP CNC and Ported heads have bad valve seats; 3-5 out of round, was told the limit is 2!!! And Ford sells these to be bolt-on, WTF!!!??

Oh and the builder told be he wants me to use a certain type of oil!!!!
Guess what it is...

 

[eighty6gt]

5w50...

 

[AutoXRacer]

5w50...

No brand... lol

But he was initially planning on 5W-40 until I told him the oil pump is a SVT high volume oil pump. And that at start up I was seeing up to 90 PSI.

So immediately he changed it to probably 5W-30 fearing the 40 weight will be too much.

But the brand he recommended I was fearing...its expensive. $11 a freakin quart!!!!!!!
And not readily available. sigh

 

[eighty6gt]

I would go out of my mind.

Motul?

You're locking out your cams, right? 5W30 will probably work.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I would go out of my mind.

Motul?

You're locking out your cams, right? 5W30 will probably work.

Yes, locking out the VCT/Phasers...

Well my builder is wanting me to use Joe Gibbs Oil!!!!!
Damn this is $11 a quart.

I guess this is what they mean when they say high performance motors are expensive to maintain. lol

$100 oil changes every 3,000 miles... OUCH!!

 

[BruceH]

It doesn't have to be this way. I'll bet they don't know that all it takes to reduce pressure is a relief spring change in the pump. Takes less than 5 minutes. The geo rotors are exactly the same between a stock 3v pump and the 2013 GT500 pump. So is the housing. Only real differences are the backplate and pressure relief spring.

They disassembled the heads and checked the seats? Did they call FRPP on their own or did they wait until you made the call?

Yes, locking out the VCT/Phasers...

Well my builder is wanting me to use Joe Gibbs Oil!!!!!
Damn this is $11 a quart.

I guess this is what they mean when they say high performance motors are expensive to maintain. lol

$100 oil changes every 3,000 miles... OUCH!!

 

[AutoXRacer]

It doesn't have to be this way. I'll bet they don't know that all it takes to reduce pressure is a relief spring change in the pump. Takes less than 5 minutes. The geo rotors are exactly the same between a stock 3v pump and the 2013 GT500 pump. So is the housing. Only real differences are the backplate and pressure relief spring.

They disassembled the heads and checked the seats? Did they call FRPP on their own or did they wait until you made the call?

I am not sure what type of pump this is. On my invoice from JDM all it said was SVT High Volume oil pump with billet gears. Its definitely not a 2013 GT500 pump.

I'd rather not mess with the oil pump.
Besides, what would be the benefit to reducing the oil pressure? I want to keep my oil pressure as it was with the original JDM motor.
Initial start up the oil pressure peaked at max 90PSI, shortly as the motor warmed up, the oil pressure would drop to 20-30 PSI at idle and maintain at least 60 PSI at 2,000 RPM.

Yep, I took the heads over so they could fix the blemish that I found after my 2nd replacement heads from FRPP. I did not want to send FRPP another set of heads back and waste another 2 weeks; plus FRPP was not interested in my findings as I did not get any response from them the 2nd time around.

(this defect sat right on the sealing surface of the head gasket)

Anyway, they checked the heads inside and out and found the valve seats to be out of spec. So they performed a valve/seat job.

Sure the heads would have worked as is...but why not build it right...?

 

[BruceH]

I thought you were using the GT500 pump and pickup that come with the pan. I didn't realize you already had an older version.

I'm skeptical. It seems that they keep finding things. I hope it turns out good for you. BTW I'm always skeptical.

 

[skwerl]

I thought you were using the GT500 pump and pickup that come with the pan. I didn't realize you already had an older version.

I'm skeptical. It seems that they keep finding things. I hope it turns out good for you. BTW I'm always skeptical.

I think they will keep finding things until they find the bottom of Gerald's wallet.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I thought you were using the GT500 pump and pickup that come with the pan. I didn't realize you already had an older version.

I'm skeptical. It seems that they keep finding things. I hope it turns out good for you. BTW I'm always skeptical.

I agree, I've been skeptical too... But you have to trust the shop you're working with too at some point or else whats the point.

I think they will keep finding things until they find the bottom of Gerald's wallet.

Skwerl, !!?? lol

Yeah, I was feeling that way too.

I don't think the shop is one to take advantage of customers otherwise they would not have the reputation they currently have.

I believe they are are on the extreme side as far as machine shops are concerned, in the sense that most shops would not have checked FRPP's valve job and assumed it was right.

In my case, its a good thing this shop is highly detailed seeing my luck thus far. The shop does not let anything slide as at the end, its their reputation and they can not afford to assume something is done right.

Its surprising and scarey to think that the products put out by FRPP and other big names is not put to par on quality.
The shop owner, Chuck, has told me that performance engine parts (heads, blocks, etc) are not bolt-on ready as most think they are.
Sure they will work and make the power, but they will leave a lot to be desired and potential.

Like Chuck says, when you buy performance heads and what have you from a big manufacturer, you're paying for the engineering that designed that part. You are not paying for the detail (machine finishing) work. Remember, the guy finishing off those heads is a poor low wage worker making ends meat. You think he will put the effort into those heads???

Now I see why JDM's version of the FRPP head are so much more expensive...