3V NA setup. Need advice.

[darrens07gt]

As you can see from my sig I have 4.10 gears, LT's, ORH, magnaflow chambered muffler axelback and a crappy Spectre air filter. I just bought a set of hot rod cams and plan to order the JLT series 3 CAI with tuner pack from American Muscle with a pre-loaded Bama tune.

My research seems to indicate that a intake manifold, UDP & throttle body are not really worth the cost vs the gains. I'm not looking to to squeeze every HP out of this car. It's going to be a street car with maybe a very occasional track pass. I'll be building a track car soon enough but It'll be on a better starting platform then a 4.6 3V.

But when it comes to CMDP's the general consensus is that they are worth it for opening up a few HP and piece of mind that the stock setup won't lead to a damaged or destroyed motor.

Are Delete Plates really worth it? And WTF is with the blowing up your motor with stock plates? Wouldn't that need to be some kind of factory recall? Or is that more urban myth than fact?

Another question. Do cams need any kind of a break in? Or once they are installed you can drive it like you stole it right off the bat?

Also do Hot Rod Cams eat spark plugs like my old LS1's cam did? I had to replace the plugs once a year with that car.

Final question. If I were to decide on N20, and I by no means have made that decision, would a 75 shot work ok with Hot Rods and the NA tune? I'll get the colder plugs of course if I ever go that route.

I'm sorry for all the questions but searching did not adequately answer these for me. And I do appreciate any input or advice. Thanks in advance.

 

[skwerl]

Save your money and throw a blower on it. You can spend $3K or more on bolt ons and gain 35hp or you can spend $6k and add 125-150hp.

And I wouldn't let Bama tune my lawnmower.

 

[darrens07gt]

Save your money and throw a blower on it. You can spend $3K or more on bolt ons and gain 35hp or you can spend $6k and add 125-150hp.

And I wouldn't let Bama tune my lawnmower.

No blower for me. The 4.6 motor with 3650 transmission are a bad combination IMO for anything over 400 RWHP. But what's wrong with Bama tunes? I read they have tunes for hot rod cams down to a science.

 

[MassMustang]

You I agree with the idea that the money is better spent on a blower (best bang for the buck) but if it's going to take a few years to save $6K or so, I see nothing wrong with grabbing a tuner and CAI. I think it's mandatory for any NA setup. I also have no issues with Bama tuning for basic bolt-ons. When I can finally afford a blower, I'll sell my CAI (and possibly the tuner) and have the car dyno tuned.

I think gears are a must have too. You should think about your goals and setup. I went 4.56 gears (very steep) but I have taller rear tires that make the effective gear ratio 4.30. Not too bad. I want a Paxton/Vortech blower, and that should work well with that setup. If you want a twin screw blower, go wild milder gears. I think it gets tougher to choose gears with that in mind unless you've done other mods like drag springs, control arms and DRs. The 4.10s seem to be the sweet spot though.

As for the CMDPs, I bought some used economy ones for short $$ and I think it helps some midrange and top end. I think it'll help with the centri blower too. I heard some had the plates break off and damage the engine under forced induction.

Other than that, MANY will advise that stock cams are fine until you're FI. I'm only thinking cams because I saw a deal for some that may work well with my build plans. I know plenty love those Hot Rod cams though, especially for the extra lope in the idle.

Hope that helps.

 

[darrens07gt]

I am not looking to do a blower ever on this car. No offense to 3V owners with blowers but this car sucks for making serious power. First you need to forge internals particularly the rods. Then you need a better fuel pump. Then you need a better (and likely different) transmission and clutch. Then you need a stronger driveshaft that may or may not need to be modified. Add all that to the cost of the blower itself and you can easily be into the car for 15K.

No thanks. I'll build either a LS1 f-body with a decent heads/cam setup or a 4V 5.0 with an automatic for track use. It'll cost a ton less (not counting the cost of the car) to get either car to run high 10's to low 11's.

This car will be my street car/somewhat daily driver just for fun tooling around town and rowing gears. For my track car I'll want a bullit proof automatic with a big ass torque converter anyway.

 

[MassMustang]

Then I'd grab the CAI and CMDPs. You've done most everything else.

 

[skwerl]

Sounds like you got it all figured out then. Good luck!

 

[darrens07gt]

Sounds like you got it all figured out then. Good luck!

Not quite. I really don't want the CMDP's unless it's absolutely a good idea for engine safety reasons. Not sure if what I read was fact or urban legend.

And I need to know if there is any breakin proceedure on cams or can you just hammer on them right out of the gate.

And there was the spark plug question. Do these cams eat spark plugs or can the plugs last a long time?

If AM/Bama is a bad idea then who should I buy the CAI-tuner and mail order tune from?

 

[Townson]

The cmdp thing is a myth I would say. Never heard that before.

The cams shouldn't require a break in.

They shouldn't "eat" sparkplugs.

Bama's V2 tuned are decent. However, if you want an email tune, I would look into either getting one from either Lund or Lito.

And for the love of god, keep that ls1 shit out of here.

 

[702GT]

As you can see from my sig I have 4.10 gears, LT's, ORH, magnaflow chambered muffler axelback and a crappy Spectre air filter. I just bought a set of hot rod cams and plan to order the JLT series 3 CAI with tuner pack from American Muscle with a pre-loaded Bama tune.

If you don't have a tune for what you currently have, you're missing a nice handful of ponies right there. I won't tell you not to get the Cold Air Intake of your choice, I will say there are better choices. Get a tuner, get what you have tuned. I recommend Lito for your remote tuning needs.

My research seems to indicate that a intake manifold, UDP & throttle body are not really worth the cost vs the gains. I'm not looking to to squeeze every HP out of this car. It's going to be a street car with maybe a very occasional track pass. I'll be building a track car soon enough but It'll be on a better starting platform then a 4.6 3V.

The best thing you can do for yourself is decide what your budget is for your car. If you don't want to spend a lot on the car, keep in mind your performance goals may not be met. If you don't want to get into replacing the engine for a built engine, then stay away from power adders. Nitrous especially. For around $2-3k you can tastefully power mod a car with some suspension/brake/cosmetic goodies here and there. (These parts may not all be aquired "brand new." Some thrift should be involved.

But when it comes to CMDP's the general consensus is that they are worth it for opening up a few HP and piece of mind that the stock setup won't lead to a damaged or destroyed motor.

Are Delete Plates really worth it? And WTF is with the blowing up your motor with stock plates? Wouldn't that need to be some kind of factory recall? Or is that more urban myth than fact?

There are several discussions on CMDP's. Is the possibility real, that the charge motion valves could fail in a shut condition and damage the motor? Yes. How likely? Personally, I think you have better odds of hitting a cat in a tree. I feel delete plates only become useful if you *need* to be in the high rpm's all the time, or are FI. The OEM charge motion valves will help even a cammed car retain more bottom end off the line (the fun zone). If you're not cammed, and NA, there's really no excuse not to run the OEM CMCV. Scratching at 2-5 more hp and significant loss of low powerband for the cost of the CMDP's, IMO, is a waste.

Another question. Do cams need any kind of a break in? Or once they are installed you can drive it like you stole it right off the bat?

You can use break in lube for the cam install, other than the need for lubrication on first start 'til oil flows through the heads, there is no break-in period for OHC.

Also do Hot Rod Cams eat spark plugs like my old LS1's cam did? I had to replace the plugs once a year with that car.

LS-what? If your car is tuned properly, the only other thing that eats plugs faster is excessive heat (generally a nitrous or boost problem... sometimes both...)

Final question. If I were to decide on N20, and I by no means have made that decision, would a 75 shot work ok with Hot Rods and the NA tune? I'll get the colder plugs of course if I ever go that route.

Nitrous will work with any cam configuration. Some better than others. Nitrous likes cam profiles similar to a blower cam profile. NA cam profiles are built to keep air flowing through the cylinder as quickly as possible. This results in tight LSA's. Tight LSA's mean that an intake valve is open while an exhaust valve is still open. If nitrous is being sprayed, some is being thrown out the exhaust, which makes dentists cry. Nitrous makes the LS guys cry too.

You can run as big a shot as you want, just remember to upgrade supporting mods accordingly. A 75 is a baby shot for the 3v, it will be usefull but lack that neck snapping bite a good 100 or 125 shot provides. Colder plugs are not required for such a shot, nor adjusting plug gap. This will eat your plugs marginally faster, as you seem concerned with. As long as your tune NA tune isn't super-aggressive and on the safe side, you shouldn't need a tune for a 75 shot. Run good fuel and size your pills correctly.


I'm sorry for all the questions but searching did not adequately answer these for me. And I do appreciate any input or advice. Thanks in advance.

If you decide your budget for the car is big enough to sport a blower, just do it and be done. Up to 8-10psi on a bone stock 3v can be a lot of fun and still moderately safe. Around here, you can snatch up a 3v FI system for $2-4k, and lots of vendor support to be found.

If your budget is not for a FI car, beware the bottomless financial pit of NA mods. Sometimes less, is more effective.


Also, what's wrong with my 3650 and my procharger winding 500+bhp in front of it?

 

[darrens07gt]

The cmdp thing is a myth I would say. Never heard that before.

The cams shouldn't require a break in.

They shouldn't "eat" sparkplugs.

Bama's V2 tuned are decent. However, if you want an email tune, I would look into either getting one from either Lund or Lito.

Thanks. Those are the specific answers I was looking for.

And for the love of god, keep that ls1 shit out of here.

Hey come on now. Nothing wrong with anything that's V8 American Muscle. I can appreciate all muscle cars.

Now if you said keep that import / VTEC shit out of here then hey I'm right there with YA

 

[Townson]

Lol I'm just messing around. I've got a soft spot for an ls1 camaro. My dad had one when I was a kid that terrified me.

 

[darrens07gt]

If you decide your budget for the car is big enough to sport a blower, just do it and be done. Up to 8-10psi on a bone stock 3v can be a lot of fun and still moderately safe. Around here, you can snatch up a 3v FI system for $2-4k, and lots of vendor support to be found.

If your budget is not for a FI car, beware the bottomless financial pit of NA mods. Sometimes less, is more effective.


Also, what's wrong with my 3650 and my procharger winding 500+bhp in front of it?

I'd rather spend the serious money on a different car and definately one with a big stalled automatic. I'm probably never going to do the N20 on this car but wanted to keep my options open just in case.

I'm not concerned with the cams eating my plugs. I was used to changing my plugs every year due to the big cam I was running on my previous car. I just needed to know if I should be buying plugs once a year or once every 100K miles.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I really appreciate the information.

 

[darrens07gt]

Lol I'm just messing around. I've got a soft spot for an ls1 camaro. My dad had one when I was a kid that terrified me.

That's cool. I've loved the Trans Am ever since I saw smokey and the bandit, LOL. But I also love all other kinds of american muscle especially the old school ones from the late 60's and early 70's. Mustang's, Charger's, Camaro's, Chevelle's, Roadrunners and well you get the idea.

 

[roberts]

Do boost and be done and happy at 450hp!!!

 

[fdjizm]

Do boost and be done and happy at 450hp!!!

No guarantees
I've been thoroughly enjoying being NA all these years.
It's always more fun when nobody expects your car to be quick.

 

[702GT]

It's always more fun when nobody expects your car to be quick.

Says the guy thumpin away at a light... lol

If it wasn't for the damn 747 under the hood, nobody would hear my stock cam comin!

 

[darrens07gt]

Says the guy thumpin away at a light... lol

If it wasn't for the damn 747 under the hood, nobody would hear my stock cam comin!

LOL, true enough. My problem is I live out in the country so the only people that will hear my cams beside me are the farmers on thier John Deer tractors and the actual deer that I'm trying not to run over.

 

[702GT]

LOL, true enough. My problem is I live out in the country so the only people that will hear my cams beside me are the farmers on thier John Deer tractors and the actual deer that I'm trying not to run over.

The john deer may actually lope harder than a 3v with hotrods... lol!

I'd keep it simple then. Good CAI and a good tune! Keep the stock cmcv. It will be plenty torquey, the exhaust and intake upgrades will give you a healthy 300-310whp. Cams can bring you up to 320-340whp with higher rpm's, but IMO if you're not serious about the car, keep it simple.

 

[darrens07gt]

Save your money and throw a blower on it. You can spend $3K or more on bolt ons and gain 35hp or you can spend $6k and add 125-150hp.

And I wouldn't let Bama tune my lawnmower.

Update:

This post scared me away from the bama tune. I ended up buying the tuner with custom tune from Brendpeed. The Hot Rod cams arrived today and I expect the tuner next week!

I can't wait. I'll probably install the cams themselves this weekend and then sit and wait for the tune. And that's gonna be a HARD wait.

Thanks for all the input everyone. I appreciate the advice.