3v oil pump VS svt oil pump..pics and measurements inside!

[SD07GT]

As long as they design them for the right problem, I agree.

From what has been posted in the past, the failures are not caused because the gears are too weak for the job, but because crank harmonics are smacking them around in both directions instead of smoothly driving them from one direction. The shock from having the drive load pushing the gear against the oil pressure one instant, then having the crank twist backwards and push the gear the OTHER direction for a split second, THEN twist back around and smack the now backwards turning gear and force it to turn the correct direction (once more against the oil pressure load no less) can be very nasty.

While the powdered metal stuff does have some advantages in HVM (cost, low waste, reproducability, etc), the examples of the rods on these engines show that they really don't like shock loads that much. I have no doubt that good billet material would hold up better than the stock gears.

IF they are machined and heat treated correctly.

Of course, given that it appears the failures are caused by uncontrolled/improperly controlled crankshaft harmonics, I would think that fixing the root cause of the harmonics would pay a LOT more dividends than fixing the result of those harmonics (broken oil pump gears). Unfortunately, that is an areas that has so many variables it is very difficult to build a damper that works for all or even most combinations.

shouldn't the older style billet oil pump gears from the 4v motors work with this oil pump ?

I've really haven't heard from any failures on gears breaking compared to the the older cobra 4v gears in the oil pump

 

[silverstang07]

the 4v pumps do not supply enough pressure

 

[05yellowgt]

And haven't the billet gears on the 4v's been known to eat up the snout of the crank?

 

[ChevyKiller]

In my opinion, the more and more I learn about this - the more it appears that the pump has never been as suspect as the actual balancing and harmonics of the motor build.

Big case in question, of all these pump failures we have heard about - has ANY of them been on a stock motor? Have they all been built motors? Maybe the pump is getting charged for a case of death by builder?

 

[Hawgman]

In my opinion, the more and more I learn about this - the more it appears that the pump has never been as suspect as the actual balancing and harmonics of the motor build.

Big case in question, of all these pump failures we have heard about - has ANY of them been on a stock motor? Have they all been built motors? Maybe the pump is getting charged for a case of death by builder?

I do not disagree with this at all. BUT... one more variable to throw in is the fact that all the failures have been at higher HP and PSI than a stock motor will handle

 

[Freaknazty]

I do not disagree with this at all. BUT... one more variable to throw in is the fact that all the failures have been at higher HP and PSI than a stock motor will handle

id also speculate that they were in higher rpm's than you would on stock motor too

 

[ChevyKiller]

Yep - you and hawg are right and due to the nature of the limits of the stock rotating assembly, I highly doubt we'd ever know for sure but there are some who have taken the stock motor pretty far and have revved it pretty good as well.

I really think the builders are more to blame for these failures than a Ford part IMO.

 

[o0Dan0o]

I want billet titanium gears!!! Though they may be a little bit hard to handle too many knocks.
Dan

 

[SD07GT]

Yep - you and hawg are right and due to the nature of the limits of the stock rotating assembly, I highly doubt we'd ever know for sure but there are some who have taken the stock motor pretty far and have revved it pretty good as well.

I really think the builders are more to blame for these failures than a Ford part IMO.

I can tell you from seeing builds from the past 15 years , that when the rotating Assembly gets balance it always doesn't have the flywheel or OEM or aftermarket dampener on it , Ive seen where rotating Assembly's have been purchased from a vendor or done in house then they added the flywheel and dampener later ..totaly the wrong way to do it ! Everything needs to be there when it gets balanced all at once ....that could be where the harmonics come in and destroy these oil pumps and crank walk starts to happen on high hp engines

 

[ROUSH1711]

I can tell you from seeing builds from the past 15 years , that when the rotating Assembly gets balance it always doesn't have the flywheel or OEM or aftermarket dampener on it , Ive seen where rotating Assembly's have been purchased from a vendor or done in house then they added the flywheel and dampener later ..totaly the wrong way to do it ! Everything needs to be there when it gets balanced all at once ....that could be where the harmonics come in and destroy these oil pumps and crank walk starts to happen on high hp engines

I'm no where near any expert,talking to a few
folks,I'm agreeing with you guys.I'm having my
SB done here in the next few weeks,and it's all
going to be balanced together,like it should be.

 

[o0Dan0o]

Would you add the pressure plate to the flywheel? Then you have harmonics in the tranny and the rest of the drive-line that can be transfered in. I doubt wheel-hop helps either.

 

[one eyed willy]

just keep in mind, if you have everything balanced together, you have to keep all the same parts. so if you do the pressure plate, you have to keep it, or if you ever swap it out your whole assembly will be out of whack. same thing goes for the UDP up front and flywheel.

 

[o0Dan0o]

just keep in mind, if you have everything balanced together, you have to keep all the same parts. so if you do the pressure plate, you have to keep it, or if you ever swap it out your whole assembly will be out of whack. same thing goes for the UDP up front and flywheel.

Even just turning the flywheel would mess it up, or not bolting it back on in the same orientation.
Dan

 

[ROUSH1711]

just keep in mind, if you have everything balanced together, you have to keep all the same parts. so if you do the pressure plate, you have to keep it, or if you ever swap it out your whole assembly will be out of whack. same thing goes for the UDP up front and flywheel.

CORRECT!
Just like it should be done
I'll be picking up my SB complete.

 

[ChevyKiller]

I can tell you from seeing builds from the past 15 years , that when the rotating Assembly gets balance it always doesn't have the flywheel or OEM or aftermarket dampener on it , Ive seen where rotating Assembly's have been purchased from a vendor or done in house then they added the flywheel and dampener later ..totaly the wrong way to do it ! Everything needs to be there when it gets balanced all at once ....that could be where the harmonics come in and destroy these oil pumps and crank walk starts to happen on high hp engines

I 100% agree and the more I look into, the more and more that this appears to be one of the common differences between the motors that have lost the oil pump and the ones that haven't...

 

[o0Dan0o]

I 100% agree and the more I look into, the more and more that this appears to be one of the common differences between the motors that have lost the oil pump and the ones that haven't...

Have the motors that killed an oil pump had upgraded harmonic balancers, what about the ones that didn't?
Dan

 

[jeostang]

To alleviate some of the imbalance. What the the correct way to go about choosing the correct harmonic balancer?

 

[SD07GT]

To alleviate some of the imbalance. What the the correct way to go about choosing the correct harmonic balancer?

Theres nothing wrong with the factory one as long you use it in your re balancing of your rotating Assembly

unless you need a S.F.I. rating , then you would go aftermarket, or if your loooking for a overdriven one

 

[ChevyKiller]

Theres nothing wrong with the factory one as long you use it in your re balancing of your rotating Assembly

unless you need a S.F.I. rating , then you would go aftermarket, or if your loooking for a overdriven one

Absolutely. I think the point some are missing is that we are not talking about which balancer is on the car, we are talking about the balancer being on the motor when it's balanced...

 

[one eyed willy]

i just dropped off my stuff at the machine shop. they are balancing everything from the front to the rear.