Addressing the "Coyote Swap It!!" Declarations

[1950StangJump$]

I ended up going with the 450s and the comp cam limiters. Brenspeed said that's the cam they recommend for the B326, and they sound great in the clips I have listened to.

Not sure why anyone said use the Livernois limiters over the comp cam. From what I can tell, its the springs in the Livernois units that are the problem; the comp cams are plates without said springs - a completely different design. Brenspeed said they haven't seen them fail before.

And the 350s don't need limiters, allegedly. DOB was not very complimentary of the 350s, or ANY limiters. But, a look through the threads reveals it was the Livernois units that DOB had trouble with years back. I don't know what they would think of the comp cam design if push came to shove.

 

[Badd GT]

I ended up going with the 450s and the comp cam limiters. Brenspeed said that's the cam they recommend for the B326, and they sound great in the clips I have listened to.

Not sure why anyone said use the Livernois limiters over the comp cam. From what I can tell, its the springs in the Livernois units that are the problem; the comp cams are plates without said springs - a completely different design. Brenspeed said they haven't seen them fail before.

And the 350s don't need limiters, allegedly. DOB was not very complimentary of the 350s, or ANY limiters. But, a look through the threads reveals it was the Livernois units that DOB had trouble with years back. I don't know what they would think of the comp cam design if push came to shove.

Are you using the comp 125 valve springs? If you are it won’t matter what limiters you use because the valve springs will overpower your limiters and they won’t work correctly. Let me rephrase that, since 2012, when I started dabbling with mustangs, I haven’t known anyone who was able to have 125 valve springs and their VCT work correctl together

 

[1950StangJump$]

Are you using the comp 125 valve springs? If you are it won’t matter what limiters you use because the valve springs will overpower your limiters and they won’t work correctly. Let me rephrase that, since 2012, when I started dabbling with mustangs, I haven’t known anyone who was able to have 125 valve springs and their VCT work correctl together

Take a look. I'm confident they have the right valve springs for the job

https://www.brenspeed.com/b326lb3.html

 

[Badd GT]

Take a look. I'm confident they have the right valve springs for the job

https://www.brenspeed.com/b326lb3.html

Good luck! There is always a first!

 

[1950StangJump$]

Good luck! There is always a first!

I'm not sure what that means

 

[Badd GT]

It means you have the correct spring but the spring is too strong to work with your VCT

Search BruceH, Sportinawoody they are better articulating the issues, I just know that everyone ends up locking their cams out with those springs. The Livernois PAC springs will work with those cams and your VCT and your factory spring retainers. Call Livernois tomorrow and verify

 

[1950StangJump$]

It means you have the correct spring but the spring is too strong to work with your VCT

Okay. You do realize that Brenspeed has extensive experience with this combination, right? As it so happens, the 127450 with the limiters is the most common cam they use with that motor setup (inclusive of the springs)

 

[Badd GT]

I bought my 127400’s and 500’s with tunes from Brenspeed (i bought my springs and limiters from Livernois)and have had nothing but good experience with them. As a matter of fact, Brent told me personally that I built the strongest 4.63v NA that he ever saw (385rwhp)
I’m just sharing with you the experiences I’ve witnessed in the 7 years I’ve been on this forum

 

[1950StangJump$]

I bought my 127400’s and 500’s with tunes from Brenspeed (i bought my springs and limiters from Livernois)and have had nothing but good experience with them. As a matter of fact, Brent told me personally that I built the strongest 4.63v NA that he ever saw (385rwhp)
I’m just sharing with you the experiences I’ve witnessed in the 7 years I’ve been on this forum

thank you. I'm learning as I go, so I sincerely appreciate the perspective. I'll call Brenspeed tomorrow and talk to them about it

 

[Midlife Crises]

Do yourself a favor. Run the springs, retainers and faze limiter that Comp Cams says to use with their cam. Brenspeed has been playing this game a long time and if Comp’s component package did not work they wouldn’t recommend it. Let alone warrantee it.

 

[1950StangJump$]

It means you have the correct spring but the spring is too strong to work with your VCT

Search BruceH, Sportinawoody they are better articulating the issues, I just know that everyone ends up locking their cams out with those springs. The Livernois PAC springs will work with those cams and your VCT and your factory spring retainers. Call Livernois tomorrow and verify

Okay, I talked to Brenspeed. They said the issue you mention was, indeed, a problem . . . 5 years ago.

However, Ford redesigned the lash adjusters and followers in 2017, and Brenspeed uses the new design. Also, they use an upgraded oil pump, which creates more pressure and stronger VVT movement. Based on those two things, they haven't seen a problem with using the limiters with the stronger valve springs in years.

 

[Badd GT]

Okay, I talked to Brenspeed. They said the issue you mention was, indeed, a problem . . . 5 years ago.

However, Ford redesigned the lash adjusters and followers in 2017, and Brenspeed uses the new design. Also, they use an upgraded oil pump, which creates more pressure and stronger VVT movement. Based on those two things, they haven't seen a problem with using the limiters with the stronger valve springs in years.

Great, you should be good to go then! Enjoy

 

[RED09GT]

I guarantee you that Ford did not redesign anything in 2017 for a platform that was out of production for 7 years. The Ford Racng kit is just brand new OE parts, there is no difference to them despite what the internet message forums say.

 

[1950StangJump$]

I guarantee you that Ford did not redesign anything in 2017 for a platform that was out of production for 7 years. The Ford Racng kit is just brand new OE parts, there is no difference to them despite what the internet message forums say.

He didn't say that. I don't remember his exact verbiage, but he mentioned they are now a Coyote based design.

I don't know enough about valvetrains to know. Regardless, they are not the same thing used pre-2017. He was adamant about that, and he was credible.

 

[Midlife Crises]

Don’t know what year Ford redesigned the cam followers for the three valve but the FRPP kit I installed last year was most assuredly different than the followers that came in my 2010 engine. The oil squirter hole is smaller and shaped different on the new follower. I think the lash adjusters are different also.

 

[RED09GT]

Are you sure that they aren't talking about the phasers or the limiters? The lash adjusters would have nothing to do with the valvesprings overpowering the springs and oil passages in the phasers, that was where the problem with the limiters and the heavier valvesprings is.

I remember when Brenspeed told Tiger Hoanaker (Or whatever his name is) that they had not seen any failures, he then took his car to a different shop and the limiters had in fact been beaten to a pulp due to the phasers and crappy livernois limiters not being able to control the cam position. He went from Brenspeed's biggest cheerleader to a critic of their work almost over night.
It worked well for a few years but they will fail, they are not a good design.

Call Ford Racing, they will tell you that the lash adjusters and followers are simply OEM parts at a better price.

Just trying to keep you informed.

 

[RED09GT]

Don’t know what year Ford redesigned the cam followers for the three valve but the FRPP kit I installed last year was most assuredly different than the followers that came in my 2010 engine. The oil squeaker hole is smaller and shaped different on the new follower. I think the lash adjusters are different also.

A customer had a set at the machine shop that I used and they had all the same stampings and machine markings as my 2009 ones so not sure how your 2010 could be different from them. We even had to guess at which lash adjuster was the new one and which one came out of my engine. Watch the video on American Muscle, they even state that you are not getting anything different from OEM.

 

[HOLLYWD69]

Okay . . . so I ordered the Brenspeed B326 long block.

I had ordered with the Comp Cam 127350s, which require no limiters. But, both Brenspeed and DOB recommended the 127450s, so I am changing the order. My only concern . . . Brenspeed recommends the Comp Cam Limiters for the 450s, while others (including DOB) believe there are longevity issues with limiters and the lockouts are the way to go.

I did find some old threads on the subject, including DOBs. It looks like perhaps there are two different styles of limiters, so maybe the pricier Comp Cam limiters are okay, particularly with improvements in recent years? Anyone know?

I had plans on going with the 326 Boss block with a DOB 3.4 Whipple set up but had to postpone my build due to a few financial set backs lol. I went back and forth on a coyote swap but finally decided on sticking with the 3V. I'm definitely interested in seeing how your build goes.

 

[1950StangJump$]

Are you sure that they aren't talking about the phasers or the limiters? The lash adjusters would have nothing to do with the valvesprings overpowering the springs and oil passages in the phasers, that was where the problem with the limiters and the heavier valvesprings is.

I remember when Brenspeed told Tiger Hoanaker (Or whatever his name is) that they had not seen any failures, he then took his car to a different shop and the limiters had in fact been beaten to a pulp due to the phasers and crappy livernois limiters not being able to control the cam position. He went from Brenspeed's biggest cheerleader to a critic of their work almost over night.
It worked well for a few years but they will fail, they are not a good design.

Call Ford Racing, they will tell you that the lash adjusters and followers are simply OEM parts at a better price.

Just trying to keep you informed.

Maybe he did say phasers, or maybe he misspoke. I have asked for a clarification by email.

Also worth noting, he emphasized that the bigger oil pump in the B326 (along with a recommendation to use 10-40 oil) increased oil pressure and was a big part of the solution.

As for the example you gave with "Tiger," is there a thread somewhere I can read through? Wondering whether the Livernois limiters created different results than the comp cam design. Also wondering WHEN that problem was.

Worst case, I'll elect for the lockouts and be done with it. But, I want to be sure that's not fixing a problem that was solved 5 years ago.

 

[1950StangJump$]

I had plans on going with the 326 Boss block with a DOB 3.4 Whipple set up but had to postpone my build due to a few financial set backs lol. I went back and forth on a coyote swap but finally decided on sticking with the 3V. I'm definitely interested in seeing how your build goes.

Yea, I did a ton of research. The guys who so condescendingly say you should just "coyote swap" havn't done a true apples to apples comparison. The Coyote might be the way to go if your considerations are different then mine, e.g. you're okay with used or your HP goals are different.

As for the Whipple, I had wondered about the larger DOB offerings. Not sure how the larger Whipple would compare in performance/price. With the TVS Gen3, I think 700-750 at the wheels is very realistic. As you approach 800RWHP, you also have to convert to a return style fuel system; so, at some point, good will be good enough for me.