Addressing the "Coyote Swap It!!" Declarations

Discussion in 'Mustang Chit Chat' started by 1950StangJump$, Mar 16, 2020.

  1. 1950StangJump$

    1950StangJump$ forum member

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    So, I'm about to dump some money into my 2008 3V. I have literally exchanged dozens and emails and phone calls with vendors, and I have spent tons of hours online.

    No doubt a Coyote has more NA power than the 3V. But, if you already own a 3V, the question is whether the power-to-money spent ratio is worth the swap - or whether you should build up the 3V. While the stock 3V can be boosted to 450RWHP safely, it can be built (or you can buy a built 3V) that will safely handle 1000HP. For argument's sake, lets call that 850RWHP, though I suspect you can go higher.

    Here's the thing. A Gen1 Coyote is limited to about 550-600RWHP on stock internals, and swapping in a new or almost new Gen1 will be as much money as building the 3V.

    The Gen2 can do 800-850RWHP on stock internals (you will just want to change the oil pump gears). So, on it's face, the Gen2 swap seems to be equivalent to a 3V built motor. While the Gen2 is about equivalent in HP capacity, and you can also argue that it's easier to get to that capacity with the power adders than with the 3V. The catch? If you call Power by the Hour, you learn that the harnesses and kits to Coyote swap into an 05-09 Mustang will only work with the Gen1. So, you're into it for big money for the engine swap and the blower, only to find out you're limited to 550RWHP. You can put the Gen2 in, but there is no harness to make your gauges, AC, etc work correctly. If you use the Gen1 harness on a Gen2 motor, you have drivability/tuning issues.

    There verdict? Certainly, the Coyote is the better platform to start . . . especially the Gen2 . . . if you don't care whether you have an S197 or a S550. But, if you like the 05-09 Mustang body style, and you want big power, you're better off upgrading the 3V to something like the Brenspeed B326 3V and throwing lots of boost at it. You're not limited in HP like the Gen1 Coyote, and you keep all your gauge/AC functionality (unlike the Gen2). The only other option would be to change over the timing parts in a Gen2 to make it function like a Gen1 with its electrical harness. But, you are now getting up there in cost well beyond the Brenspeed B326.

    I'm about to pull the trigger on the B326 now. The flat billed kids on Facebook, who swear by the Coyote and blast the 3V, wont know how to handle this.
     
    jdlatil, gus, RED09GT and 2 others like this.
  2. b00stedgt

    b00stedgt Senior Member

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    Looking forward to your build! Keep the thread updated please!
     
    1950StangJump$ likes this.
  3. Juice

    Juice forum member

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    You can run a gen2 coyote with gen1 electronics, but you need to install gen1 timing components.
    You dont need an almost new gen1 coyote, some milage isnt a bad thing. I have over 100000 on my junkyard gen 1 and zero issues. Have done several HPDE events already and love it. All I did was change the oil and sparkplugs, and dropped it in. Any parts purchased was for a 2013 gt. That is the good news.

    What will be a challange with a coyote swap is the custom programming needed to make it all work together. Some things like reverse lights will not work. These items will need to be resolved.
     
  4. 1950StangJump$

    1950StangJump$ forum member

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    Yea, I started to address the "new vs used" idea into the cost considerations in my original post, but I decided it was getting too long.

    I'm OCD and wanted to start with "new." I'm not interested in going from a low mileage 3V with stock internals to a higher mileage Coyote. So, when I say that the B326 is equivalent to the Coyote Swap in cost, that's assuming new vs new.

    But I did address the timing components deal in my original post.
     
  5. Midlife Crises

    Midlife Crises Member

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    A B326 with big flowing heads and a TVS 2650 would be a blast to play with.
     
  6. 07gts197

    07gts197 forum member

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    I personally would build and boost a 3v for the sake of simplicity. Yes a coyote swap is cool and makes great power na but you’ll want more and the money for swapping in say a gen 2 then boosting it is probably going to be more than building and boosting what you have, though I will say I have not broken down the numbers so don’t flame.

    By the way what transmission do you have? I’m sure you’re smart enough to have thought of that too but you didn’t mention it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. 1950StangJump$

    1950StangJump$ forum member

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    Already have a T56 Magnum XL.

    My goal is 750RWHP, which I think reasonable. Right now, I have an RST clutch, and I'm regretting not doing the RXT. But, since this will not be tracked and no slicks used, I will stick with the RST and see how it does.

    Jason at DOB says he has beat on RSTs with 1000HP - it comes down to street vs strip. Same for the rear end - he says the stock rear is fine if you're not dropping the hammer on slicks at the drag strip
     
  8. Dino Dino Bambino

    Dino Dino Bambino I have a red car

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    Is this good enough for you? ;)

     
    EBABlacknChrome likes this.
  9. 1950StangJump$

    1950StangJump$ forum member

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    Ha. I've actually been PM'ing the guy from S&H about fuel requirements. It will be his pump I get through DOB, and I'll likely get injectors straight from S&H.

    Part of the 1001 communications as I sorted through the build plan
     
  10. Badd GT

    Badd GT forum member

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    I have a 4.6 3v Dob with a trinity TVs making 610 rwhp. It’s a blast to drive, you will love the 326 boosted!
     
    1950StangJump$ likes this.
  11. nfrizell

    nfrizell Member

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    I have the undesirable engine with the undesirable blower backed by the undesirable transmission. Being undesirable sure is a lot of fun.

    I plan to leave my current car alone. It's fun and it all works.

    My next one will start with a 05 to 09 V6 and will be a built 4.6 DOB setup. [​IMG]

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     
    1950StangJump$ likes this.
  12. golkhl

    golkhl forum member

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    98B05021-21B9-4F5E-A084-31C9B8421F76.jpeg If and when the day comes, I plan on doing the same, build my 3V. Car currently makes 440 rwhp on 5.5lbs of boost(Roush TVS) and 91 octane.
     
    1950StangJump$ likes this.
  13. 1950StangJump$

    1950StangJump$ forum member

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    Okay . . . so I ordered the Brenspeed B326 long block.

    I had ordered with the Comp Cam 127350s, which require no limiters. But, both Brenspeed and DOB recommended the 127450s, so I am changing the order. My only concern . . . Brenspeed recommends the Comp Cam Limiters for the 450s, while others (including DOB) believe there are longevity issues with limiters and the lockouts are the way to go.

    I did find some old threads on the subject, including DOBs. It looks like perhaps there are two different styles of limiters, so maybe the pricier Comp Cam limiters are okay, particularly with improvements in recent years? Anyone know?
     
  14. Dino Dino Bambino

    Dino Dino Bambino I have a red car

    Age:
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    Apparently the Livernois phaser limiters are the ones to avoid.
     
    1950StangJump$ likes this.
  15. RED09GT

    RED09GT Senior Member S197 Team Member

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    I got a set of the livernois limiters in a deal with a bunch of other parts and elected not to use them. The spring had about as much tension as a spring in a pen. I won't even re-sell them as I don't want to see anyone have heartache by using them.
    My car has lost some low speed driveability with cams and lockouts but it is not a big deal.
    If you do use lockouts, get the TFS 2V adjustable crank sprockets so that you can install the cams with some advance so you keep your top end power. I'd install the 127450's on a 108 degree ICL if I was running lockouts.

    And so far, my poor little 3V runs with the 6.0L LS swap cars and bigger turbos at my local track. The difference is my car actually has an interior and I can drive it to the track. And everything still works.
     
  16. Juice

    Juice forum member

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    Advance cam to gain low end. Retard cam for top end power.
     
    MrBhp likes this.
  17. Badd GT

    Badd GT forum member

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    I run the 127500 cams with my Dob setup and the livernois limiters as well as the livernois PAC springs the re use the Ford spring retainers. I’ve run this cam/valvetrain setup for years with no issues/ great results.the 500’s and 450’s are very similar cams, I had the 500’s when I was na and there wasn’t enough difference in cams to warrant changing them
     
  18. Badd GT

    Badd GT forum member

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    I’m seriously considering putting my 127400’s back in for low rpm drive ability, they were nicer on the low end than the 500’s imo and the 500’s never did anything power wise that the 400’s hadn’t already achieved other than move up my powerband 5-600 rpm. With the years of experience I’ve had with this setup, I’d be inclined to buy the 350’s if I had it to do over.I’d take the livernois limiters any day over the comp ones idk if the 350’s would need them
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
  19. Midlife Crises

    Midlife Crises Member

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    I am running the Comp Cams 127350s in my 3 valve. They are very drivable and pull hard above 3500 rpm. 4000 to 6000 happens very quickly. That said, if I have cause to open the cam covers it will be hard to resist a set of 127550s for the extra rpm they offer.
     
  20. Badd GT

    Badd GT forum member

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    Drivability of those cam suck especially for a streetcar
     
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