Alternator issue ?

[thailand]

SOLVED!

Well, I'm ready for the lashing. Its always the simplest thing, and this time is no different. I retested the ohms in the littelfuse, and guess what...

So replaced the littelfuse and the charging light has gone away, and the battery is holding steady voltage.

This one was due to my lack of being thorough. On the plus side, PA Performance's customer service was very good, and I still needed the new voltage regulator.

Thanks to all for helping and giving me ideas I would have never had. I'm not a big poster, but I soak this stuff up like a sponge. Again, thanks for all the great ideas and troubleshooting!!!

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Those tests at auto part stores are not very good. They only tell you if the alternator is completely dead or not. As you noticed the alternator fluctuates in voltage, the pep boys tester is not going to see that.



Best test you can do is buy a new alternator from Ford, gmitch, or performance distributors. Your issues will disappear.

To kind of add too this;

I worked for a major alternator remanufacturor as an intern last summer. They sell 51% of the alternators at Autozone, Orielley's, and Advance.

Anyways, I was in the aftermarket engineering department, which has some REALLY, REALLY advanced testing equipment.

My boss told me the Autozone testers are about three grand, and we actually had one there, since we get so many returns from them. For about 15% of the alternators we got back, the result of our $15,000 tester was different than the Autozone tester.

A lot of those units were perfectly fine and Autozone sent them back anyway because THEIR tester wasn't calibrated or used correctly. A lot of the units their tester said were fine but sent back anyway because it wasn't working in the vehicle were fine on our tester, but Autozone sent it back to is anyway because they didn't want to tell the customer his car was broken, not his alternator.

 

[thailand]

I figured Autozone and Pep Boys machines were very basic, but decided to see if it could spot a glaring failure.

My major was engineering at PSU and figured it couldn't hurt to even test them on their machine, although I had read before that they were never a "tell-all", especially on our cars.

But I did use the fact that it looked like voltage was coming out of the alternator and used that to test my next step...that darn Littelfuse! Haha.

Luckily all is well, for now...

 

[Dubstep Shep]

I figured Autozone and Pep Boys machines were very basic, but decided to see if it could spot a glaring failure.

My major was engineering at PSU and figured it couldn't hurt to even test them on their machine, although I had read before that they were never a "tell-all", especially on our cars.

But I did use the fact that it looked like voltage was coming out of the alternator and used that to test my next step...that darn Littelfuse! Haha.

Luckily all is well, for now...

Yea those machines aren't the best.

Glad you got it sorted out though!

 

[rebus]

I don't think they test for AC ripple at the Zone. They test for output, but that won't tell you if you have a bad rectifier bridge. Dirty DC will mess with computers. Ford 6G alternators are prone to rectifier diode failure. The Denso alternator from the 2010 is a 3 phase alternator and provides a cleaner output than the single phase 6G. There are aftermarket rectifier bridges with 50 amp diodes that you can upgrade to, but not really necessary on a 135 amp alt, but if you want heavy duty.

 

[michael.konor]

Ugh, just to add to the confusion...just had the alternator tested at pep boys...everything passed...diode, regulator, rectifier. Going to test the wiring now.

Unfortunately, their tests are worthless and I suspect made that way to limit their liability on replacing alternators. If your alternator is still under warranty, send me a private message on options.

Mike

 

[thailand]

As of right now, everything seems to be working. I do have a life time warranty from PA Performance, and they did honor it and replaced the voltage regulator. Very quick turnaround too.

 

[A John In NJ]

SOLVED!

Well, I'm ready for the lashing. Its always the simplest thing, and this time is no different. I retested the ohms in the littelfuse, and guess what...

So replaced the littelfuse and the charging light has gone away, and the battery is holding steady voltage.

This one was due to my lack of being thorough. On the plus side, PA Performance's customer service was very good, and I still needed the new voltage regulator.

Thanks to all for helping and giving me ideas I would have never had. I'm not a big poster, but I soak this stuff up like a sponge. Again, thanks for all the great ideas and troubleshooting!!!

I'm going thru the same problem,

My car died all of a sudden while driving on the highway. Jump started it and the moment I shut it off the car wouldn't start again.

I'm have the same mods you have and same wire upgrade kit.

I need to check the fuse first before I jump to sending it to PA

What amp is the fuse?

 

[A John In NJ]

SOLVED!

Well, I'm ready for the lashing. Its always the simplest thing, and this time is no different. I retested the ohms in the littelfuse, and guess what...

So replaced the littelfuse and the charging light has gone away, and the battery is holding steady voltage.

This one was due to my lack of being thorough. On the plus side, PA Performance's customer service was very good, and I still needed the new voltage regulator.

Thanks to all for helping and giving me ideas I would have never had. I'm not a big poster, but I soak this stuff up like a sponge. Again, thanks for all the great ideas and troubleshooting!!!

Where did you get the Littelfuse?

 

[thailand]

I got the fuse from Pep Boys. It was a 175 amp fuse, since that was all they carried, but it should be ok for a stock replacement alternator. A 200 amp fuse came with the kit though.

You can check the fuse for continuity to see if its good before removing the alternator.

My issues aren't over yet though...I still get a "Check Charging System" warning when I start the car, that does go away after a few minutes. I may just get a spare alternator, since I can change it in about 20 minutes, haha.

 

[Pentalab]

I don't think they test for AC ripple at the Zone. They test for output, but that won't tell you if you have a bad rectifier bridge. Dirty DC will mess with computers. Ford 6G alternators are prone to rectifier diode failure. The Denso alternator from the 2010 is a 3 phase alternator and provides a cleaner output than the single phase 6G. There are aftermarket rectifier bridges with 50 amp diodes that you can upgrade to, but not really necessary on a 135 amp alt, but if you want heavy duty.

So why can't you use a 2010 Ford oem 3 phase alternator in a 05-10 car ?? The output Vdc would be the same. I thought all alternator's were 3 phase. 3 phase alternator's for other vehicles have been around a looong time now. Why would ford still supply single phase alternator's for 05-09 cars ?

Testing for AC ripple is very simple do do. Use a Fluke 87 DVM...switched to read AC volts / millivolts...and lay it across the battery /alternator terminals. The fluke dvm has dc blocking caps in each leg...so it can read the AC ripple. Now my B+K dvm doesn't have the blocking caps built in, so when switched to AC volt mode, and laid across the battery terminals... it will read 12-14 vdc all the time.

Any alternator really needs to be tested with a load on it. I can read the battery vdc on my aeroforce gauges and it's a fairly constant 14.3 to 14.4 vdc. I can always use the 12 vdc accessory jack in the 2010 to connect a dvm into as well.

IF you do have excess AC ripple, you know you have a shorted rectifier in there somewhere. With a higher load, the ripple will be even higher. AC ripple is bad news for batteries...... it will fry a battery within a few months. It's also bad news for any 12-14 dcv electronic equipment.

With a shorted rectifier, you will be pumping raw AC into the battery on half cycles with a single phase alternator. With a 3 phase alternator, and a shorted diode, ac ripple would be less, but still an issue.

 

[thump_rrr]

I have an 05 with a Saleen blower which presents several problems.
1) the alternator is flipped around with the pulley towards the engine so it is now being spun backwards reducing its ability to cool itself due to the internal fan now cavitating.
2) Since it is being spun backwards the factory alternator pulley with a clutch in it is no good. It requires a special splined tool and an impact wrench to remove the pulley making roadside swaps next to impossible.
3) I'm running an 8 rib setup so I would need to swap the pulley for an 8 rib.
4) the alternator needs to be re clocked so that the 3 wire harness doesn't jam up against the CAI and break the wire.

It took me several alternators (6) to perfect everything but now I carry with me a spare alternator which has the proper pulley already installed. A spare main alternator cable with fusible link and the 3 wire harness which had broken once in the past. (Both lengthened for the Saleen blower application)

What I have found to be the culprit in all the alternator failures is that the voltage regulator overheats causing the plastic to melt slightly which leads to poor electrical contact.
Having a spare alternator allowed me to bring home the defective alternator and dissect it.
Once I found the loose voltage regulator I tightened it back up and put the same alternator in the car. It has been nearly year since my last failure.
I am leaving on vacation with the car later today so I can bet you that this is the week which my alternator is most likely to fail.

 

[s8v4o]

Look into a Mitsubishi alternator from the same year crown Victoria police interceptor. You can pick one up at Orileys or autozone with a lifetime warranty. It's a direct bolt in for stock 4.6L mustangs, and puts out 215amps.

Can anybody else comment on this alternator. Are all the 215AMP alternators for the crown vic police packages Mitsubishi alternators? Are they a better design? What are the differences other than AMPS? I can get a REMY at cost for only 160 bucks so I might end up getting this.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Can anybody else comment on this alternator. Are all the 215AMP alternators for the crown vic police packages Mitsubishi alternators? Are they a better design? What are the differences other than AMPS? I can get a REMY at cost for only 160 bucks so I might end up getting this.

To my knowledge, all the interceptor alternators are Mitsubishis.

The case is significantly larger, but for naturally aspirated applications where the alternator hasn't been relocated it'll fit just fine.

You work for Remy? That's where I worked for awhile.

 

[DevGittinJr]

All of the aftermarket alternators I've found state that they're for '05-'08. I've even called a few places to verify. Supposedly, the '09,'10 alternator is different, and no one makes an aftermarket one for lack of demand. I'm wondering if any of you have actually changed the alternator on a '09,'10 car, and if so, which one did you use?

 

[Dubstep Shep]

All of the aftermarket alternators I've found state that they're for '05-'08. I've even called a few places to verify. Supposedly, the '09,'10 alternator is different, and no one makes an aftermarket one for lack of demand. I'm wondering if any of you have actually changed the alternator on a '09,'10 car, and if so, which one did you use?

The 09-10 alternator is a Denso model instead of the shitty 6G the 05-08 came with. There's little aftermarket for the 09-10 because the Denso is so damn good.

That said, you can swap the alternators between the cars.

 

[DevGittinJr]

The 09-10 alternator is a Denso model instead of the shitty 6G the 05-08 came with. There's little aftermarket for the 09-10 because the Denso is so damn good.

Okay. Makes sense now. This must be why my alternator hasn't actually failed yet. I just figured it would soon, as it seems to be a common problem with these cars.

That said, you can swap the alternators between the cars.

So then why do PA and other aftermarket versions specify '05-'08? Wouldn't they work in a '09/'10 car?

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Okay. Makes sense now. This must be why my alternator hasn't actually failed yet. I just figured it would soon, as it seems to be a common problem with these cars.







So then why do PA and other aftermarket versions specify '05-'08? Wouldn't they work in a '09/'10 car?

They basically make a beefed up 6g, which is silly in my book. The Denso units aren't as cheap to make.

 

[o2sys]

I needed one quick and because I have a DOB setup, I couldn't run the Mitsubishi unit because the rear bracket wouldn't work.

So I found a local alternator rebuild shop that sold me a reman. but with "upgraded" internal components from the 200amp.

I don't know exactly what he meant or if its true or not but the guy was really nice and it was $90 with an 8-rib oversized pulley and he cut the ears off and repainted it so it would be a direct fit for the DOB manifold.

So far so good, been tuning with Lito lately and been driving it hard and no hick ups yet.

 

[CL-ONE 5.4L]

I needed one quick and because I have a DOB setup, I couldn't run the Mitsubishi unit because the rear bracket wouldn't work.

So I found a local alternator rebuild shop that sold me a reman. but with "upgraded" internal components from the 200amp.

I don't know exactly what he meant or if its true or not but the guy was really nice and it was $90 with an 8-rib oversized pulley and he cut the ears off and repainted it so it would be a direct fit for the DOB manifold.

So far so good, been tuning with Lito lately and been driving it hard and no hick ups yet.

Good find! I'm saving for a DOB setup.