amsoil

[BruceH]

API certifications in the USA don't mean diddly squat!

They do to me and to all auto manufacturers. They must mean something to amsoil too since some of their oils certified are by the API. They wouldn't go through all that trouble for nothing.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

They do to me and to all auto manufacturers. They must mean something to amsoil too since some of their oils certified are by the API. They wouldn't go through all that trouble for nothing.

If base stock swapping were allowed for true synthetics, more would be API certified.

Although, since the API SN certs only allow for a max 900 ppm of phosphorous, many would still not be. Why "degrade" a formulation to meet a standard that is lower than the current formulation is already. That's how the top tier blenders see it, and so do I.

On the other hand, if the API would take NOACK into consideration AND base stock swapping were permitted, ALL Amsoil lubricants would be API certified. Yet again, I will repeat myself, it's a money game biased on petroleum lubricants.

Wait, haven't we had this discussion/disagreement before?

 

[BruceH]

Here's one that's api certified and less than 3% highly refined base oil which I'm sure you know is needed to be a carrier for the additives. It's also available for less than $5 a quart.

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GSAP_msds_00104655.PDF

I've used alot of oils over the past 30 years and never had an oil related failure. Come to think of it I've never had a major failure. Of course I've also followed the auto manufacturers advice on oil changes and viscosities. I just can't see the value in running oil for any longer.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Is a refined mineral oil superior in keeping contaminants in suspension, yes....agree 100%. That's the ONLY advantage it has over a true PAO.

Notice how the MSDS says it's PAO, then they call it highly refined petroleum. Quite the contradiction. So which is it?

Ultra is group III, Platinum I have no facts to support otherwise, and no comments from Pennzoil. Non the less, it's a great lubricant that yields excellent UOAs.

 

[BruceH]

If base stock swapping were allowed for true synthetics, more would be API certified.

Although, since the API SN certs only allow for a max 900 ppm of phosphorous, many would still not be. Why "degrade" a formulation to meet a standard that is lower than the current formulation is already. That's how the top tier blenders see it, and so do I.

On the other hand, if the API would take NOACK into consideration AND base stock swapping were permitted, ALL Amsoil lubricants would be API certified. Yet again, I will repeat myself, it's a money game biased on petroleum lubricants.

Wait, haven't we had this discussion/disagreement before?

Yes we have and I swore I wouldn't get involved in another oil argument/discussion again, yet here I am again, lol.

The bottom line is I believe API specs are more important than amsoil specs. All of amsoils previous statements on the non-validity of API went out the window when they brought out the OE line.

 

[BruceH]

Is a refined mineral oil superior in keeping contaminants in suspension, yes....agree 100%. That's the ONLY advantage it has over a true PAO.

Notice how the MSDS says it's PAO, then they call it highly refined petroleum. Quite the contradiction. So which is it?

Ultra is group III, Platinum I have no facts to support otherwise, and no comments from Pennzoil. Non the less, it's a great lubricant that yields excellent UOAs.

If you read the msds it states less than 3% highly refined mineral oil.

I find it hard to believe you didn't see that.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

The bottom line is I believe API specs are more important than amsoil specs. All of amsoils previous statements on the non-validity of API went out the window when they brought out the OE line.

If that were true, then why did Mobil 1 model their new oil lineup in the mirror image of Amsoil?

They introduced OE and XL for people like you who insist that the API logo makes the oil better. Why not cater to everyone? You don't think it's sad Amsoil had to reduce the quality of their lubricants to meet API SM and SN certs?

If you read the msds it states less than 3% highly refined mineral oil.

I find it hard to believe you didn't see that.

I did see that, as I'm not interpreting it the same way you are. That's not how the MSDS actually reads.

It actually says.....

The highly refined mineral oil contains less than 3% of DMSO - extract

I say again....

The first sentence suggests is primarily a PAO, the following sentences say it's "highly refined". PAO isn't refined...it's synthesized. Group III hydrocracked lubricants are "highly refined".

Let's also not forget about the misused word "synthetic" in the USA. It's very misleading!

 

[BruceH]

If that were true, then why did Mobil 1 model their new oil lineup in the mirror image of Amsoil?

They introduced OE and XL for people like you who insist that the API logo makes the oil better. Why not cater to everyone? You don't think it's sad Amsoil had to reduce the quality of their lubricants to meet API SM and SN certs?



I did see that, as I'm not interpreting it the same way you are. That's not how the MSDS actually reads.

People like me? Hmm.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

People like me? Hmm.

No disrespect intended, as I value you in the Ford modular world. We all know you have had a lot of experience building your own 4.6L.

 

[NastyStang113]

People like me? Hmm.

I suspect he meant people that value the API, etc certifications.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

I suspect he meant people that value the API, etc certifications.

Thanks for clarifying, that's exactly how I meant it.

 

[HellsBells]

Mobil 1 is primarily a group III base stock. It's not a blend, it's actually a hydrocracked petroleum base stock or "highly refined petroleum". They refine group II dino to remove many of the impurities, creating group III.



Actually, Pennzoil IS a group III base stock, and was openly admitted by Pennzoil themselves. The quote below os from their Q&A from Bobistheoilguy forums.Platinum I'm not 100% sure about, but I'm convinced it's also a group III. The reason is, Pennzoil is more focus on "factory clean" and not base stock long term performance. Since there group III base stock has a NOACK of 10-12%, it will still pass the API SN certifications that will allow a NOACK no higher than 15%.

The only lubricant you can grab off the local parts store shelf that is guaranteed to be a group IV, is Royal Purple. If you want to order through the internet, choose either Red Line or Amsoil.

Be careful though, Amsoil OE and XL lines are group III base stocks. Their signature series and high ZDDP formulations are group IV.

Sweet, I must have read/remembered wrong then. I stand corrected. Thanks for the info!

I still believe that no matter what oil you use, just get an analysis done on it and if it looks A-OK, then that oil is fine for your motor, your driving habits, and all that. You can't argue with used oil analysis results. If there's nothing wrong with the results, then you know the oil is doing its job properly and there's no need to go hunt for better and generally more expensive oils.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Well, you know....some of us are anal...and search for the best no matter what, but you are correct. Bruce H and I discussing Pennzoil Platinum is the prime example. So what that it's not formulated with the absolute best, it get the job done perfectly.

 

[HellsBells]

Well, you know....some of us are anal...and search for the best no matter what, but you are correct. Bruce H and I discussing Pennzoil Platinum is the prime example. So what that it's not formulated with the absolute best, it get the job done perfectly.

Completely agree with you. Like I said, I've gone nuts before and spent close to $30/quart on some oil that is supposed to be way better. I stopped once I saw that it didn't do anything extra for me. Either way, if somebody can afford $30/quart on every oil change, then I am only envious of them for being able to afford that. I would love to myself but can't.

What have you guys said about Pennzoil Platinum so far? I just started using this stuff because it was on sale and read good stuff about it. My UOA from my first fill up looked good so I stuck with it.

Was always curious if Platinum was much different from the new Pennzoil Ultra. Any input on that?

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Was always curious if Platinum was much different from the new Pennzoil Ultra. Any input on that?

Ultra is Pennzoil's best cleaning lubricant. It's a group III refined petroleum base stock.

Platinum was Pennzoil's best, prior to Ultra, but still regarded to be just as good. Some state it's a group IV, but I don't agree with this considering how the MSDS sheet is written. I honestly feel it's a group III base stock blended with group IV PAO, but not the 3% - 97% levels some believe it to be. The word synthetic is so misused on bottle labels and MSDS sheets, it's hard to know what's accurate.

If I had to choose a lubricant over the counter from a parts store, it would be Pennzoil Ultra or Platinum.

 

[Blank]

wow i didn't realize there was so much to oil. I will continue to use mobil 1 and once i go FI i will use RP or AMSOIL. Its worked for me so far

 

[HellsBells]

Ultra is Pennzoil's best cleaning lubricant. It's a group III refined petroleum base stock.

Platinum was Pennzoil's best, prior to Ultra, but still regarded to be just as good. Some state it's a group IV, but I don't agree with this considering how the MSDS sheet is written. I honestly feel it's a group III base stock blended with group IV PAO, but not the 3% - 97% levels some believe it to be. The word synthetic is so misused on bottle labels and MSDS sheets, it's hard to know what's accurate.

If I had to choose a lubricant over the counter from a parts store, it would be Pennzoil Ultra or Platinum.

Gotcha. I was under the impression that Platinum was definitely a Group IV as well but whatever, it's been working just fine for me.

What oil do you use if ordering online or from a specialty store?

 

[stkjock]

What oil do you use if ordering online or from a specialty store?

He posted it above, Amsoil or Redline, though you can find both over the counter at some speed shops.

 

[Grabber]

Membership? What do you mean?

You can sign up on www.amsoil.com and become a preferred member for $10 every quarter I think. Maybe 6 months. Prices are a good amount cheaper if you sign up. You may need to enter the name of a local dealer you went through in order to qualify. Cannot remember.

 

[HellsBells]

He posted it above, Amsoil or Redline, though you can find both over the counter at some speed shops.

My bad. I have this condition called "selective reading". It's quite a bummer and has affected my life, both personally and professionally. However, my doctor tells me I am starting to develop "selecting hearing", which has been known to be a desirable trait in a relationship/marriage.