BruceH
BBB Big Bore Boss 322
Why would it be different? 4 valves? Fuel pressure is adjustable in the tune. They flow 80lbs at 3 bar.
BBR...So frustrated with them... Time to vent!
- Thread starter 2012gtcs
- Start date
Why would it be different? 4 valves? Fuel pressure is adjustable in the tune. They flow 80lbs at 3 bar.
BruceH
BBB Big Bore Boss 322
The "Fanboy syndrome" It's all too prevelant on forums.
JEWC_Motorsports
S197 Junkie
Interesting. From BBR
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012csgt
I don't quite know where to start. I mean when I had the #8 happened, Chris begged me to keep this off the forums, but I have had so many problems I cant keep quit any longer.
"Simply,NOT True at ALL, anytime you have had wanted or needed anything we have tried our best to fit you in asap and keep you satisfied and will still continuously try to help."
Currently my car was down the last 2 weeks because my transmission is now trashed and is currently being fixed. After talking with Chris about this AND other Mechanics/Ford technicians, also having time to reflect on my personal experiences with BBR, to say I'm frustrated is an understatement. I'm pissed. Since last August when I requested BBRs services to install a Vortech its been a complete nightmare. In Short, From the time I picked my car up after the install, it wasn't running right, to 1500 miles later the motor was blown, to 3500 miles later the transmission is blown, and to top it off, right before that was told by Chris my rear end also needed to be replaced. Like I said, I consulted many mechanics/ford technicians and was told by all that it was the tuning that BBR did on my car most likely caused the motor ( #8 cylinder )and tranny to fail.
"you and I discussed in depth how these motors have ring gap issues, as talked about numerous times and confirmed by our engine builder, which is used by many others"
Hearing that did not make me happy. Thinking back on it, it could be some other things too. Like when the Vortech was installed and dynoed by BBR, I picked it up and drove it, I had to bring it right back because it wasn't running right. Come to find out that during the install, packing paper was left in the innercooler and was blocking the mass air flow meter ( I have pics I can post ) from regulating the air fuel ratio ( running really rich then really lean ). So if it couldn't run / drive right, you can imagine how bad it was at wide open throttle on the dyno. Not to mention it dyoed 575hp all messed up with the mass air flow being blocked by packing paper to 631hp the very next day....amazing gains.
" We installed the system that you brought to us without any issues. It was dyno-tuned and had no lean issues what so ever; the install & dyno tuning took longer than expect and you were here waiting for your car.(road test wasn't done"My Fault"). The next day when you called with a slight drivablity problem I mentioned to check all hoses and clamps where we found the issue. We told you to come back in and we would re-arrange our schedule to re-dyno your car at no cost or postponement what so ever"
That in itself could of caused the engine to fail like it did. I mean I have taken to the track and it just banged the rev limiter on almost every gear. ( Steve witnessed it)
"Steve Also wittiness you consistently changing your tunes parameters while at the track. "
I probably have, no lie, 45-50 revisions from Chris but I guess he was unable to solve it. Good thing I am local cause I couldn't image doing all these revisions through email.
"Yes all the changes that you requested were changed, but you would go into adjust options area and keep making changes after I informed you this wasn't a good idea. The "40-50" changes that we made for FREE, were usually us returning the shift points back to the original tune that we had written. Maybe all the adjustment you made cause a failure; b/c we have hundreds of happy automatic customer running just fine a lot faster, higher horsepower,and all on stock transmissions."
Fast froward to after the new motor was installed, I picked the car up, drove it down sawgrass expressway and 3 out of 4 cross member bolts that hold the transmission fell out on the highway ( 4th one was almost out ) causing the transmission to hang 4 inches from the ground. Who knows, that could of caused serious strain on the transmission causing it to fail. There are many more situations like this( radiator hoses falling off, air filter falling off, all because it wasn't tightened ).
"Cross Member Bolt - " If I recall you removed your exhaust and not sure about the bolts. We Dyno tuned and road tested the car before delivery and heard nothing or any sign of the bolts being loose, but we did give you 3 new bolts and offer to come to your home and fix."
*Cooling - "You contacted myself on a Sunday afternoon consuring you were having water leaking out of your vortech overflow tank. I spent time on the phone with you discussing the cooling system and what to check for. I mentioned that you should try the basics and swap out the radiator cap. With this being the issue, you swapped caps and added water to replace the loss yet you failed to "burp" the system properly which caused additional pressure to the lines. That can cause the provided clamps to loosen up.
*Filter - This is the first time I've head anything about this.
What about the fact you changed the entire PCV set-up and had to remove multiple parts, and once again not notifying us on the mod pending on how i you changed it, could have caused un-metered air."
Good thing I got a second opinion on the rear end and found out that it just didn't have any "friction modifier" in it, so I had to just change the fluid and add some. Oh and yes, BBR installed the gears but forgot the friction modifier. Was quoted $750 to fix it by Chris, but luckily I fixed it for a $9.50 bottle of friction modifier.
"You dropped by out of the blue and asked my opinion and wanted us to check it out which we did outside. But unfortunately we were too busy to have a lift open to do a complete inspection; based on what you were saying the rear end was doing and the noises it was making, you asked me what would worst case be, I said the rear may need to be fully rebuilt which is the cost listed. Never once did I mention it needed that"
Its just been one bad and costly experience after another. I feel like I am a victim of negligence. I mean if a Doctor performed a bad surgery he would get sued and lose his license. Unfortunately anyone with a dream and $70 to incorporate can open a performance shop and utilize the customers as test mules with no recourse. In addition to my Transmission being fixed right now, I also need a new tune due to the fact BBRs tune caused this and I can no longer run it. But again its not that simple. Chris decided to put 80lb injectors in the car and no one will tune the car with 80s.( Shaun at AED, Ken/lund ) all the reputable tuners informed me that the 80s are (junk) and the wrong injector for the car, and almost un-tunable. Not a shocker here as they were recommended and installed by BBR.
"I know the mention tuners prefer ID1000... as do I, but since you were on a budget you did not want to spend the $960 on ID's and opted out for the FRPP 80lb's for $389. This is the same injector we use on many cars (not just on the forums) that we stand by because they do work. it's not our fault, others do not like to tune with them. (It's the same as the 47lb injector argument) Once again we have plenty of boosted cars running the 80lb's. It is also the cheaper route for customers that are on a budget"
So in addition to getting my transmission fixed, I need new (correct) injectors for the car as well as a new (correct)tune all which totals over another $3000. I believe BBR should have some accountability for their actions. I do realize that you play, you pay, but come on. I could of went to ANY, I mean ANY other shop and not got a WORSE experience.
"I know we must seem like horrible people, but we offered a way for you to make monthly payments to help you build your bottom-end. Not to many shops that I'm aware of would consider this for a customer. You signed a written agreement to make X amount of equal monthly payments with your balloon payment at the end of last month. We had a gentleman's agreement and we shook hands. Notice that this whole thing happened at the last month it was due.... (weird)"
Some of you on here may of had a great experience, maybe I'm the needle in the haystack but now I currently have a safe data logged tune from Monty at JMS and the car runs / shifts perfect. Still, all this just makes me wanna get rid of the car all together. IDK time will tell. Maybe soon there will be a Built motor and a Vortech for sale.
"Your first post mentioned how your car has been down for the last 2 weeks to a broken transmission. But now your car is shifting "perfect" So does that mean that JMS's tune was in it before it broke? Because in another thread, you mentioned you had their tune in the car.
Overall we are sorry that you are not a satisfied customer, but we are glad that the boys at JMS could help satisfy your needs. We do try to please everyone, but in this industry doing what we do and making the HP we do, things will break. Shawn, we are just wanting to reach out to you and discuss this face to face and help you out in any way we can)"
To all of our customers, you know we do what we can to help. Answer calls after hours, stay late, talk with you on days off, and whatever else it may take.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012csgt
I don't quite know where to start. I mean when I had the #8 happened, Chris begged me to keep this off the forums, but I have had so many problems I cant keep quit any longer.
"Simply,NOT True at ALL, anytime you have had wanted or needed anything we have tried our best to fit you in asap and keep you satisfied and will still continuously try to help."
Currently my car was down the last 2 weeks because my transmission is now trashed and is currently being fixed. After talking with Chris about this AND other Mechanics/Ford technicians, also having time to reflect on my personal experiences with BBR, to say I'm frustrated is an understatement. I'm pissed. Since last August when I requested BBRs services to install a Vortech its been a complete nightmare. In Short, From the time I picked my car up after the install, it wasn't running right, to 1500 miles later the motor was blown, to 3500 miles later the transmission is blown, and to top it off, right before that was told by Chris my rear end also needed to be replaced. Like I said, I consulted many mechanics/ford technicians and was told by all that it was the tuning that BBR did on my car most likely caused the motor ( #8 cylinder )and tranny to fail.
"you and I discussed in depth how these motors have ring gap issues, as talked about numerous times and confirmed by our engine builder, which is used by many others"
Hearing that did not make me happy. Thinking back on it, it could be some other things too. Like when the Vortech was installed and dynoed by BBR, I picked it up and drove it, I had to bring it right back because it wasn't running right. Come to find out that during the install, packing paper was left in the innercooler and was blocking the mass air flow meter ( I have pics I can post ) from regulating the air fuel ratio ( running really rich then really lean ). So if it couldn't run / drive right, you can imagine how bad it was at wide open throttle on the dyno. Not to mention it dyoed 575hp all messed up with the mass air flow being blocked by packing paper to 631hp the very next day....amazing gains.
" We installed the system that you brought to us without any issues. It was dyno-tuned and had no lean issues what so ever; the install & dyno tuning took longer than expect and you were here waiting for your car.(road test wasn't done"My Fault"). The next day when you called with a slight drivablity problem I mentioned to check all hoses and clamps where we found the issue. We told you to come back in and we would re-arrange our schedule to re-dyno your car at no cost or postponement what so ever"
That in itself could of caused the engine to fail like it did. I mean I have taken to the track and it just banged the rev limiter on almost every gear. ( Steve witnessed it)
"Steve Also wittiness you consistently changing your tunes parameters while at the track. "
I probably have, no lie, 45-50 revisions from Chris but I guess he was unable to solve it. Good thing I am local cause I couldn't image doing all these revisions through email.
"Yes all the changes that you requested were changed, but you would go into adjust options area and keep making changes after I informed you this wasn't a good idea. The "40-50" changes that we made for FREE, were usually us returning the shift points back to the original tune that we had written. Maybe all the adjustment you made cause a failure; b/c we have hundreds of happy automatic customer running just fine a lot faster, higher horsepower,and all on stock transmissions."
Fast froward to after the new motor was installed, I picked the car up, drove it down sawgrass expressway and 3 out of 4 cross member bolts that hold the transmission fell out on the highway ( 4th one was almost out ) causing the transmission to hang 4 inches from the ground. Who knows, that could of caused serious strain on the transmission causing it to fail. There are many more situations like this( radiator hoses falling off, air filter falling off, all because it wasn't tightened ).
"Cross Member Bolt - " If I recall you removed your exhaust and not sure about the bolts. We Dyno tuned and road tested the car before delivery and heard nothing or any sign of the bolts being loose, but we did give you 3 new bolts and offer to come to your home and fix."
*Cooling - "You contacted myself on a Sunday afternoon consuring you were having water leaking out of your vortech overflow tank. I spent time on the phone with you discussing the cooling system and what to check for. I mentioned that you should try the basics and swap out the radiator cap. With this being the issue, you swapped caps and added water to replace the loss yet you failed to "burp" the system properly which caused additional pressure to the lines. That can cause the provided clamps to loosen up.
*Filter - This is the first time I've head anything about this.
What about the fact you changed the entire PCV set-up and had to remove multiple parts, and once again not notifying us on the mod pending on how i you changed it, could have caused un-metered air."
Good thing I got a second opinion on the rear end and found out that it just didn't have any "friction modifier" in it, so I had to just change the fluid and add some. Oh and yes, BBR installed the gears but forgot the friction modifier. Was quoted $750 to fix it by Chris, but luckily I fixed it for a $9.50 bottle of friction modifier.
"You dropped by out of the blue and asked my opinion and wanted us to check it out which we did outside. But unfortunately we were too busy to have a lift open to do a complete inspection; based on what you were saying the rear end was doing and the noises it was making, you asked me what would worst case be, I said the rear may need to be fully rebuilt which is the cost listed. Never once did I mention it needed that"
Its just been one bad and costly experience after another. I feel like I am a victim of negligence. I mean if a Doctor performed a bad surgery he would get sued and lose his license. Unfortunately anyone with a dream and $70 to incorporate can open a performance shop and utilize the customers as test mules with no recourse. In addition to my Transmission being fixed right now, I also need a new tune due to the fact BBRs tune caused this and I can no longer run it. But again its not that simple. Chris decided to put 80lb injectors in the car and no one will tune the car with 80s.( Shaun at AED, Ken/lund ) all the reputable tuners informed me that the 80s are (junk) and the wrong injector for the car, and almost un-tunable. Not a shocker here as they were recommended and installed by BBR.
"I know the mention tuners prefer ID1000... as do I, but since you were on a budget you did not want to spend the $960 on ID's and opted out for the FRPP 80lb's for $389. This is the same injector we use on many cars (not just on the forums) that we stand by because they do work. it's not our fault, others do not like to tune with them. (It's the same as the 47lb injector argument) Once again we have plenty of boosted cars running the 80lb's. It is also the cheaper route for customers that are on a budget"
So in addition to getting my transmission fixed, I need new (correct) injectors for the car as well as a new (correct)tune all which totals over another $3000. I believe BBR should have some accountability for their actions. I do realize that you play, you pay, but come on. I could of went to ANY, I mean ANY other shop and not got a WORSE experience.
"I know we must seem like horrible people, but we offered a way for you to make monthly payments to help you build your bottom-end. Not to many shops that I'm aware of would consider this for a customer. You signed a written agreement to make X amount of equal monthly payments with your balloon payment at the end of last month. We had a gentleman's agreement and we shook hands. Notice that this whole thing happened at the last month it was due.... (weird)"
Some of you on here may of had a great experience, maybe I'm the needle in the haystack but now I currently have a safe data logged tune from Monty at JMS and the car runs / shifts perfect. Still, all this just makes me wanna get rid of the car all together. IDK time will tell. Maybe soon there will be a Built motor and a Vortech for sale.
"Your first post mentioned how your car has been down for the last 2 weeks to a broken transmission. But now your car is shifting "perfect" So does that mean that JMS's tune was in it before it broke? Because in another thread, you mentioned you had their tune in the car.
Overall we are sorry that you are not a satisfied customer, but we are glad that the boys at JMS could help satisfy your needs. We do try to please everyone, but in this industry doing what we do and making the HP we do, things will break. Shawn, we are just wanting to reach out to you and discuss this face to face and help you out in any way we can)"
To all of our customers, you know we do what we can to help. Answer calls after hours, stay late, talk with you on days off, and whatever else it may take.
Steedman07
Classified's Moderator:)
There are 3 sides to every story, every time..Just sayin...
JEWC_Motorsports
S197 Junkie
Yes im waiting on the truth, lol.
ford20
Senior Member
I think you are underexaggerating there lol.
I have heard from many that the 80s don't tune as easy. Tuning takes time obviously. Alot of tunes "prefer" the ID1000s over the Ford Racing 80s. Not that the 80s don't work. They just require additional finesse to dial them in. For that reason they prefer something that works more efficiently!
Have heard the same thing.
muztangman93
Senior Member
There are usually two sides to a story and then there is the truth. But after I had a run in with them and we had our fall out I had multiple emails and stated nothing but facts and they made replies in the thread basically calling me a liar like they are him. Luckily I had all the emails still saved and private messages still as they or should I say steve was coming up with some total bs
RazorbackMustang
MT82 Lover
Yes they can. My tuner did that on my Xcal 3 with my 2-valve car. I had to send it back to him and ask for a few of the options to be unlocked.
I believe the minimum pulsewidth for those injectors is too long for the higher pressure fuel system, so you end up with too much fuel at idle.
cwhit23
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2011
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2-3 sides to every story I suppose, but every time I see a thread like this it seems to be with bbr.. That should tell you something.
best of luck op.
best of luck op.
BruceH
BBB Big Bore Boss 322
I know I tried the Deka Continental minimum pw and couldn't get above 12:1 at idle. FRPP lists a min pw well below the linear stage that Continental shows in it's specifications. This was at 39.15psi.
What I'm not getting here is why can't the pressure be lowered from 52psi to 39.15 or even 3 bar at 43.5? Is is a mechanically regulated returnless fuel system in the Coyote?
Continental specs:
http://siemensdeka.com/specsheets/FI114991.jpg
Last edited:
Yes, mechanical returnless.
EGNARO
Orange Backwards
Same here . I feel like 4 times a year we get these type of posts and I don't hear horror stories too often from other well known shops
Interesting. From BBR
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012csgt
I don't quite know where to start. I mean when I had the #8 happened, Chris begged me to keep this off the forums, but I have had so many problems I cant keep quit any longer.
"Simply,NOT True at ALL, anytime you have had wanted or needed anything we have tried our best to fit you in asap and keep you satisfied and will still continuously try to help."
Currently my car was down the last 2 weeks because my transmission is now trashed and is currently being fixed. After talking with Chris about this AND other Mechanics/Ford technicians, also having time to reflect on my personal experiences with BBR, to say I'm frustrated is an understatement. I'm pissed. Since last August when I requested BBRs services to install a Vortech its been a complete nightmare. In Short, From the time I picked my car up after the install, it wasn't running right, to 1500 miles later the motor was blown, to 3500 miles later the transmission is blown, and to top it off, right before that was told by Chris my rear end also needed to be replaced. Like I said, I consulted many mechanics/ford technicians and was told by all that it was the tuning that BBR did on my car most likely caused the motor ( #8 cylinder )and tranny to fail.
"you and I discussed in depth how these motors have ring gap issues, as talked about numerous times and confirmed by our engine builder, which is used by many others"
Hearing that did not make me happy. Thinking back on it, it could be some other things too. Like when the Vortech was installed and dynoed by BBR, I picked it up and drove it, I had to bring it right back because it wasn't running right. Come to find out that during the install, packing paper was left in the innercooler and was blocking the mass air flow meter ( I have pics I can post ) from regulating the air fuel ratio ( running really rich then really lean ). So if it couldn't run / drive right, you can imagine how bad it was at wide open throttle on the dyno. Not to mention it dyoed 575hp all messed up with the mass air flow being blocked by packing paper to 631hp the very next day....amazing gains.
" We installed the system that you brought to us without any issues. It was dyno-tuned and had no lean issues what so ever; the install & dyno tuning took longer than expect and you were here waiting for your car.(road test wasn't done"My Fault"). The next day when you called with a slight drivablity problem I mentioned to check all hoses and clamps where we found the issue. We told you to come back in and we would re-arrange our schedule to re-dyno your car at no cost or postponement what so ever"
That in itself could of caused the engine to fail like it did. I mean I have taken to the track and it just banged the rev limiter on almost every gear. ( Steve witnessed it)
"Steve Also wittiness you consistently changing your tunes parameters while at the track. "
I probably have, no lie, 45-50 revisions from Chris but I guess he was unable to solve it. Good thing I am local cause I couldn't image doing all these revisions through email.
"Yes all the changes that you requested were changed, but you would go into adjust options area and keep making changes after I informed you this wasn't a good idea. The "40-50" changes that we made for FREE, were usually us returning the shift points back to the original tune that we had written. Maybe all the adjustment you made cause a failure; b/c we have hundreds of happy automatic customer running just fine a lot faster, higher horsepower,and all on stock transmissions."
Fast froward to after the new motor was installed, I picked the car up, drove it down sawgrass expressway and 3 out of 4 cross member bolts that hold the transmission fell out on the highway ( 4th one was almost out ) causing the transmission to hang 4 inches from the ground. Who knows, that could of caused serious strain on the transmission causing it to fail. There are many more situations like this( radiator hoses falling off, air filter falling off, all because it wasn't tightened ).
"Cross Member Bolt - " If I recall you removed your exhaust and not sure about the bolts. We Dyno tuned and road tested the car before delivery and heard nothing or any sign of the bolts being loose, but we did give you 3 new bolts and offer to come to your home and fix."
*Cooling - "You contacted myself on a Sunday afternoon consuring you were having water leaking out of your vortech overflow tank. I spent time on the phone with you discussing the cooling system and what to check for. I mentioned that you should try the basics and swap out the radiator cap. With this being the issue, you swapped caps and added water to replace the loss yet you failed to "burp" the system properly which caused additional pressure to the lines. That can cause the provided clamps to loosen up.
*Filter - This is the first time I've head anything about this.
What about the fact you changed the entire PCV set-up and had to remove multiple parts, and once again not notifying us on the mod pending on how i you changed it, could have caused un-metered air."
Good thing I got a second opinion on the rear end and found out that it just didn't have any "friction modifier" in it, so I had to just change the fluid and add some. Oh and yes, BBR installed the gears but forgot the friction modifier. Was quoted $750 to fix it by Chris, but luckily I fixed it for a $9.50 bottle of friction modifier.
"You dropped by out of the blue and asked my opinion and wanted us to check it out which we did outside. But unfortunately we were too busy to have a lift open to do a complete inspection; based on what you were saying the rear end was doing and the noises it was making, you asked me what would worst case be, I said the rear may need to be fully rebuilt which is the cost listed. Never once did I mention it needed that"
Its just been one bad and costly experience after another. I feel like I am a victim of negligence. I mean if a Doctor performed a bad surgery he would get sued and lose his license. Unfortunately anyone with a dream and $70 to incorporate can open a performance shop and utilize the customers as test mules with no recourse. In addition to my Transmission being fixed right now, I also need a new tune due to the fact BBRs tune caused this and I can no longer run it. But again its not that simple. Chris decided to put 80lb injectors in the car and no one will tune the car with 80s.( Shaun at AED, Ken/lund ) all the reputable tuners informed me that the 80s are (junk) and the wrong injector for the car, and almost un-tunable. Not a shocker here as they were recommended and installed by BBR.
"I know the mention tuners prefer ID1000... as do I, but since you were on a budget you did not want to spend the $960 on ID's and opted out for the FRPP 80lb's for $389. This is the same injector we use on many cars (not just on the forums) that we stand by because they do work. it's not our fault, others do not like to tune with them. (It's the same as the 47lb injector argument) Once again we have plenty of boosted cars running the 80lb's. It is also the cheaper route for customers that are on a budget"
So in addition to getting my transmission fixed, I need new (correct) injectors for the car as well as a new (correct)tune all which totals over another $3000. I believe BBR should have some accountability for their actions. I do realize that you play, you pay, but come on. I could of went to ANY, I mean ANY other shop and not got a WORSE experience.
"I know we must seem like horrible people, but we offered a way for you to make monthly payments to help you build your bottom-end. Not to many shops that I'm aware of would consider this for a customer. You signed a written agreement to make X amount of equal monthly payments with your balloon payment at the end of last month. We had a gentleman's agreement and we shook hands. Notice that this whole thing happened at the last month it was due.... (weird)"
Some of you on here may of had a great experience, maybe I'm the needle in the haystack but now I currently have a safe data logged tune from Monty at JMS and the car runs / shifts perfect. Still, all this just makes me wanna get rid of the car all together. IDK time will tell. Maybe soon there will be a Built motor and a Vortech for sale.
"Your first post mentioned how your car has been down for the last 2 weeks to a broken transmission. But now your car is shifting "perfect" So does that mean that JMS's tune was in it before it broke? Because in another thread, you mentioned you had their tune in the car.
Overall we are sorry that you are not a satisfied customer, but we are glad that the boys at JMS could help satisfy your needs. We do try to please everyone, but in this industry doing what we do and making the HP we do, things will break. Shawn, we are just wanting to reach out to you and discuss this face to face and help you out in any way we can)"
To all of our customers, you know we do what we can to help. Answer calls after hours, stay late, talk with you on days off, and whatever else it may take.
LOL I cant wait to answer this shortly with pics of the Vortech installed with the packing paper. And I am glad I saved every text I got from Chis.
Scuba-Matt
Boost freak
The customer brings the car to BBR to have work preformed professionally. After work is preformed the car doesn't run right.
BBR tells the customer to check their work for loose hoses and connections?
Didn't the customer pay to have the work done professionally?
Who's responsibility is it to make sure the car runs right after work is preformed? Certainly not the customers.
Why wasn't a test drive done by the shop before delivering the car to the customer?
Wouldn't BBR want a data log to see everything was working properly?
BBR tells the customer to check their work for loose hoses and connections?
Didn't the customer pay to have the work done professionally?
Who's responsibility is it to make sure the car runs right after work is preformed? Certainly not the customers.
Why wasn't a test drive done by the shop before delivering the car to the customer?
Wouldn't BBR want a data log to see everything was working properly?
Last edited:
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