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Discussion in 'Mustang Chit Chat' started by theRedStorm, Sep 11, 2019.
So you overfill your vehicles with oil on purpose (above the full dipstick line?)
That extra quart doesn't do the engine any good at all. In fact it just adds more crankcase windage which hurts performance and fuel economy.
OP; Yep, rookie mistake and no matter what service/owners manual states IRT oil capacity, best to fill to "dipstick" level (full), fire 'er up & run for few minutes, let drain & re-check/fill as necessary. Dad relayed this wisdom to me on the farm many moons ago. One of our 1st jobs was to change fluids on all farm equipment/machinery before harvest...good times.
@Laga; do you have a catch can...betting not, or if you do it's probably full (dump it). >.<
Yes I do. Can be seen in this photo. On both my Stang and Ram Hemi. And no they don’t fill up. That extra quart adds less than 3/8” in car and 1/4” in truck when cold and while checking. Been doing this since the 1970’s and never had a problem. 40-50 different vehicles in total.
Never had any issues? Maybe I should start running it with 7 quarts
I just did mine, got 5.5 out after 10,000 miles. Catch can was just about full.
Mine is a V6, of course, put ~6 in, > 5.5 out isn't bad. I put 5.5 in this time, but .5
was the Lucas Synthetic oil stabilizer.
Yeah, last time I was a quart over... I am .5 over this time...
If all you got was three of six, you got a problem...
Wut? Why? What is the benefit? Only bad things can come of that.
Is this real life? Ya'll trolling? Been changing oil in cars for over 20 years and never ever measured or gave a fuck how much oil I drained out. Keep it above the low mark on the dipstick as you check periodically during the change interval and during the change add oil till it's good on the stick.
Oil wears out and gets dirty. 7 quarts last longer than 6 quarts.extra margin of safety if you get an oil leak. What kind of bad things. 46 years, over 40 vehicles, and 1.4 million miles driven, says bad things don't happen.
Also, if I can find the larger filter that matches, I use them. Like, the FRAM 16,
I use the FL-1A, or the FRAM 8A, same specs, more volume. I haven't found the
longer filter yet for my 4.0 motor...
I know FRAM is cheap, that was an example. I would use the Purolator FL-1A,
it's 50% longer than the Fram 16. The 8A or FL-1A , with soaked medium holds
almost whole quart of oil.
To reduce dry start, I fill my filters with oil before putting them on.
Overfilling may cause more blow-by...
Use quality 100% synthetic.... NO dino oil.... and NO 'semi-synthetic'. 6 qts puts it mid way between high + low lines. From low line to high line is exactly 400 ml (.42 US qt). So I typ add .2 qt to top it up to high line. After 56K miles on my 2010 + M90 blower, it doesn't lose any oil between changes, none. I use a FRPP / ford racing oil filter. 50% heavier than oem ford filter.... and 60% more media inside. High temp red silicone rubber seals. Handles sustained high oil pressure. Same filter used on the GT-500's.
On a similar note, when I switched from oem ford 'semi-synthetic' to 100% synthetic, the oil collected in my catch can dropped from 75-90% full.....down to just 10% full.
With semi synthetic, the stuff in the catch can looked like a.... 'chocolate milkshake'. When 100% synthetic used, the tiny bit collected looks like new synthetic.
Some fellow on the Roush Forum used a Fram filter on his (new at the time) 2012. Filter seized up, no oil flow, blew the eng. Ford would not replace it under warranty either.... and neither would Fram.
I try to always keep the oil level in my '08 above the crosshatched marking on the dipstick but preferably not ever much above the top of the upper hole. According to the guidance (this being for whatever constitutes "normal street duty" in Ford's eyes) in the owner manual, that probably constitutes "over-filling". But I have a very specific reason.
Hard cornering means that oil tends to collect in the cam/valve cover that's on the outboard side, because cornering g's work in opposition to gravity and slow the rate of oil drainback from that side. This effect is at its worst in common V-type engines in the 90° arrangement, where at 1g cornering there is nothing left from gravity causing oil drainback. Actually, the no-flow condition happens a little before 1g due to chassis roll in the corner, somewhere in the 0.9x range below 0.95.
At 0.6g cornering - a stupid easy level to reach even in street driving - the net force causing the oil in the outboard cam cover to drain is only about 35% of what it is when you're driving straight ahead. At double that, which I have datalogs to support being possible even on true street tires, oil that's already in the outboard drain passages wants to climb back up into the outboard cam cover . . .
Yes, the inboard cam cover will drain a little faster, but since it can't drain any faster than the oil supply into it is being replenished it can only provide brief "help".
Basically, a slight "overfill" provides a little cushion against uncovering the pickup in any hard cornering environment. It's a fairly common technique among those who autocross or do track days in a car with stock or stockish oiling systems before going to something like an Accusump or a full-on dry sump arrangement.
Was the oil hot when you drained it? Another possibility, although it isn't very common and also unlikely that you wouldn't notice, is you have a blow-by problem and your air box is full of oil.
Overfilling can also be really bad. The counterbalance weights on the crankshaft can cause frothing and foaming of the oil when it is overfilled.
It also adds additional drag to the rotating assembly.
That can create major problems.
I can see making sure that the oil is filled to capacity before any heavy-G cornering, but I certainly could never recommend that anybody overfill on purpose based on my engine knowledge.
ALSO, if you started the car before changing the oil; moving it on to a rack,
or ramps, you need to wait for it all to drain back into the pan.
6 quarts in will always be less than 6-quarts out, the oil filter media will soak
up some of the oil, and some will be in the filter housing. That never drains
back into the pan.
I don't think that's as much of a concern with the deep skirt blocks like the 4.6's used. A long time ago someone did an experiment and it took something like 8 or 9 quarts before the oil level got even close to the top of the pan. Then on top of that the crank is well above the pan rail.
A lot of guys (me included) run an extra quart in the 4V set ups because they're known to hold oil in the heads. Along with the chains pulling oil up it just isn't good for the engine. Before it became common knowledge anytime someone spun a bearing the first thing we asked is how many quarts of oil they ran and 9 times out of 10 they said the factory recommended 6 quarts.
Like I stated earlier. That extra quart adds very little to the level on the pan. If overfilling by a quart caused damage, there would be thousands of cars littering the sides of the highway. They’re not.
In my 30 years of servicing my own cars I have always drained the oil till it stopped coming out, plug the plug back in, pulled the filter, installed a new filter and then filled the engine with the called for oil (5, 6, 7 quarts...what have you) and NEVER had an issue. Never been below the hatch marks. Never been above the hatch marks. I can't believe this is even a thread.
Another item that, since I've been on these boards, is IMHO being routinely overlooked w\ our S197's concerning oil usage in our engines is that PCV valve located inside the DS valve cover. Due to the design of the 3V's intake tract (Coyote's as well) using the same air after MAF going thru the PCV system as well as the TB into the intake manifold, that PCV valve operation is paramount to helping these engines maintain their oil inside of them. If that PCV plunger inside gets stuck off it's seat or the plunger seat doesn't seal so air flow is not properly controlled thru the PCV system by the plunger's metering orifice, especially during high manifold vacuum instances (closed\part throttle TB operation) at high engine RPM's, it will most certainly over circulate the CC & the vortex (air swirl) created inside the DS valve cover from this WILL draw out oil mist from the lash adjusters squirting engine oil onto the cam lobes & cam lobe followers providing lubrication then splashing around\slung around inside the valve cover from the camshafts spinning sending it into the intake manifold into the engine cylinders to be burned. This is not made up....is fact. Yes we do install catch cans because we've found excessive oil flow into the intake manifold but seem to not realize that this excess flow just may be indicating that this PCV valve has hung open off seat or plunger seat is failing to seat off.....in addition to the other items mentioned prior in this thread. This PCV valve hanging off seat\excessive leaking can also cause engine idle control issues as well (TB closed, low RPM, high manifold vacuum operation) due to excessive MAF air flow thru PCV system bypassing the TB reducing the PCM's ability to effectively control engine idle speed. Again not made up...is fact. So I would make a suggestion to ensure that this PCV valve failing isn't your issue before you go off on your tuner...………….
The biggest issue w\ this type of PCV valve design is that it is an internal, permanent, non-serviceable part that is hidden from view & most don't realize it even exists. I'm bringing this up to add to all the other things already brought up--not to take away from them as they're also important, especially the 1 concerning use of only 100% synthetic oil due to it's superior foaming/vapor resistance design qualities vs dino oil or even synthetic oil blends--to help slow\stop engine oil from abnormally leaving the engine's CC. The only real way to even check these things for proper operation is to remove the DS valve cover, set up a pitot tube on the PCV outlet to use controlled shop air to simulate drawn air flow thru it to then see if the PCV plunger is not stuck & is moving free & the plunger is seating off as it should when drawn onto it's seat to then control (meter) the drawn airflow as designed. If it is found stuck open or allowing excessive air flow thru it when drawn onto it's seat then the only recourse is to spray sludge\varnish cleaners thru it to hopefully remove any sludge\varnish causing it to stick\not seat...if not successful then the next recourse is to replace the DS valve cover to "replace" the defective PCV valve or as last resort (as most do) go in & remove the PCV valve plunger entirely from inside the DS valve cover or leave it as is then install some other device(s) externally to control this. The most common remedy is to install valve cover breathers, let the CC vent itself to atmosphere & isolate the MAF air from the PCV system, but there are other creative ways to get around this w\o replacing the DS valve cover & isolating the MAF air from the system as well.
For all us who use our cars a lot in closed or part throttle, high RPM, high manifold vacuum operation (drag strip during deceleration after WOT runs & autocross especially, but even the daily driver that does a lot of continuous hiway/freeway driving) the focus on proper PCV valve operation is important & IMHO shouldn't be overlooked.
The lesser exception is all those who have FI installed due to the nature of using boost as even w\ a properly working PCV valve the CC can be overrun w\ enough blow by volume due to increased cylinder pressures (depending on the amount of boost pressure being applied) that it comes out thru both valve covers thus the need of catch cans installed on both sides regardless of what is done & regularly maintained to prevent oil from getting into engine cylinders as the consequences can be destructive (detonation due to excessive hot carbon buildup in cylinder head chambers\valves is the MAIN 1).
Sometimes you just gotta pay to play...………………...
This PCV valve is also IMHO 1 of the MAIN reasons that engine oil maintenance be religiously adhered to\followed according to how the engine is being operated & the use of 100% synthetic oils w\ good detergents in them be used, among other things, is to prevent this PCV valve from abnormally failing to operate properly as the #1 cause that causes these valves to fail is engine oil sludge\varnish build up inside it from abnormally long periods between oil changes causing the engine oil to start breaking down due to excessive exposure to heat, pressure & contaminate build up in the oil from engine blow by gasses w\ hydrocarbons coming into contact w\ it.
My intention w\ this post is to bring more awareness to this part's impact when discussing engine oil usage issues w\ these 3V's (and Coyote's as well).
FYI......I have a catch can that is equipped w\ a dipstick installed on my car but the #1 reason why I installed it is to provide an easy way to check PCV system for potential PCV valve failure due to sudden increased catch can fill rate changes along w\ periodic oil level checks thru engine oil dipstick. The rest of the reasons, even though are good reasons in and of themselves, were secondary.
Hope this is found to be helpful...………...